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Shimano's Domination

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Shimano's Domination

Old 11-10-07, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ChunkyB
Pretty much the same problem as with Windows. It's what most people are familiar with, and it's cheap. Most people don't want to make the effort to switch. The way I see it, it's like this:

Shimano = Windows: it's just what most people use. Not really by choice, but by default.
SRAM = Mac: It's different, and nice, but becoming more popular.
Campy = Linux: Users swear by it, and no one else can understand why.

Of course I'm a mac user, and I have only shimano stuff, so it's not a perfect analogy.


Shimano works, so this analogy doesn't.
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Old 11-10-07, 11:16 AM
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I only use the best-that is Shimano
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Old 11-10-07, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by aloysius

Shimano works, so this analogy doesn't.
LOL. Perfect assessment. I take it all back.
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Old 11-10-07, 01:19 PM
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Shimano is a name that sells, like everyone else has said. Talk to a person who never had a high-end bike, and I would bet they have never heard of Campy or SRAM. Everyone knows Shimano though.
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Old 11-10-07, 01:58 PM
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Shimano Fan Boi Fo Evah
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Old 11-10-07, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor98
Shimano pulled two brilliant marketing coups a number of years ago: first they began selling cheap but reliable groups on every level of bike.
Well, my and my wife's late 1990's era Trek mountain bikes came with Shimano LX and STX-RC components. The shifters on both bikes broke the second year, both within months of each other. These were not heavily used bikes. Turns out you can't repair Shimano, so you have to buy new replacements. That's when I decided Shimano wasn't for me.
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Old 11-10-07, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by late
My complaint with shimano is that they are chasing a nonexistent improvement.
I want brifters designed for touring. I could care less if they were 7, 8 or 9 speed.
I want a broad range of gears starting with a really low bailout gear, not zillions of tiny cogs that wear out quickly.
I somewhat agree. The great thing about Shimano is (was) the ability to mix and match the mountain stuff with the road stuff. So you could put, say, an XT rear derailleur with a 105 group to get a wide range casette. Unfortunately now that everything has moved to 10 speed above Tiagra, while mountain stuff is 9 speed, you need to either get NOS or Tiagra brifters.

I'd love to see a 9 speed Ultegra/105 level cyclocross/touring type group. Unfortunately I don't se eit happening.
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Old 11-10-07, 02:23 PM
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I agree with most of the profound statements on LBS's inventory and what sells. You are all correct.

I am not shimano bashing...Dura-Ace is spectacular and made very well.....Guess I just want to see more flavors instead of ultegra w/ ultegra G and ultegra this and that. Anything less than ultegra is too vanilla.

All but one of my bikes (7 of em) have shimano and SRAM, mostly ultegra and dura-ace with a sram 3 speed i-motion. It works, its nice and I have never had a problem with it...except my sram 3 speed fell aprt once and sram was quik to fix it. Mainly because that was all that was offered. Asked about a campy switch over on my Tommaso from DA to Chorus and they had a caniption......."Why would you want campy"

My campy record is in a different realm of reality.
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Old 11-10-07, 02:24 PM
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FWIW, Sampson and Sturmey-Archer both have working groupsets about to hit the market, and FSA keeps talking about a road groupset. Also, the dollar is stronger against the Yen, and the Euro is stronger then the dollar.
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Old 11-10-07, 02:56 PM
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Its all economics. Shimano has the quality and the price point for each level to dominate the cycling market. they are not catering only to small niche snob high end market that wants more variance,...they cater to all. It makes business sense to LBS to stock Shimano on their bikes. Will it change? Probably. I have a feeling though that it would take a long time for that to happen.

For every person that says Shimano lacks flavor or is boring or is not good enough or Campy is better.......there are ten that would vouch for its quality and reliability with the price to match. Thats what Shimano sees and that is what the LBS follows (most of them).

The key word here is "most". The product manager knows they cannot get all to like their product...they are targeting most. They are succeeding i reckon.

Ahhh the capitalist economy you have got to love it!
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Old 11-10-07, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by M_S
I somewhat agree. The great thing about Shimano is (was) the ability to mix and match the mountain stuff with the road stuff. So you could put, say, an XT rear derailleur with a 105 group to get a wide range casette. Unfortunately now that everything has moved to 10 speed above Tiagra, while mountain stuff is 9 speed, you need to either get NOS or Tiagra brifters.

I'd love to see a 9 speed Ultegra/105 level cyclocross/touring type group. Unfortunately I don't se eit happening.
QBP still stocks 9-speed Shimano STI shifters at all levels, all the way up to Dura-Ace. There are tons and tons of Ultegra shifters currently in stock. Just because it ain't the latest and greatest doesn't mean that Shimano has stopped making it or your LBS stopped selling it. You might have to wait to week to get it in on special order.
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Old 11-10-07, 06:04 PM
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There are hardly any OE Campy equipped bikes except really high end bikes. Usually ones with Record or Chorus. Most bike shop owners are not going to stock a $5-6000 bike on the floor unless there is a high demand for Campy or high end bikes.

Also, Campy does not offer huge OE discounts to manufacturers like Shimano does. They simply cannot do it. I read somewhere that if a high volume manufacturer (Giant) wanted to OE spec a road bike with Chorus/Centaur, they would probably decline. They would not be able to supply enough groups to meet demand. And also the fact they want to stay an exclusive elite brand.

Come to the shop I work at. Yes we don't stock Campy equipped bikes (because none of our lines offer it), but I personally, and a former employee/friend/teammate ride Record Equipped bikes. We'll let you take it out for a short spin to try it out. We then can work on a custom build.
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Old 11-10-07, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
QBP still stocks 9-speed Shimano STI shifters at all levels, all the way up to Dura-Ace. There are tons and tons of Ultegra shifters currently in stock. Just because it ain't the latest and greatest doesn't mean that Shimano has stopped making it or your LBS stopped selling it. You might have to wait to week to get it in on special order.
I'm aware. Some new bikes still even have 9 speed 105. However I only see it inevitably being even more phased out. Thanks for the heads up on QBP though.
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Old 11-10-07, 07:10 PM
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we stock manly willier bikes at the shop I'm at, and most of their bikes come with campy on them, we have 3 or 4 shimano bikes in the store, but around 15 campy bikes. all depends on the manufacturer.
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Old 11-10-07, 07:17 PM
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You can get components for everything but derailleurs from a lot of other companies besides Shimano and Campagnolo. Oh, and SRAM has derailleurs, too. And FSA makes a front derailleur.

So what was the complaint again?
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Old 11-10-07, 09:03 PM
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But Shimano doesn't make clothing? What kind of markey domination is that? Wusses...

The situation is different in Europe, but not hugely. What gets me is that Campagnolo groupset, when bought from an online retailer like probikekit, for example, are typically cheaper than Shimano groups. So Shimans OEM discounts must be spectacular.

I asked an LBS about a Campagnolo cross bike and they wondering why I might do that. In my case, it's because I hate STI.
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Old 11-10-07, 09:19 PM
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It is what is on walmart bikes.
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Old 11-11-07, 01:27 AM
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@chunkyb: you have the chronology wrong - campagnolo is like mac, the first, the best and the original. but campy got lazy and was copied and surpassed by in some respects by shimano ie windows. Mac/campy reformed and got better and now, despite lessend market share is the choice of fewer but more discerning/economically indulgent people. SRAM is like linux, the newcomer of uncertain origin that is really coming into its own, if you are performance minded. And this from a current mac user since 98 and a campagnolo rider since ~1979, who is riding his first shimano bike under duress but actually seriously coveting SRAM RED. Aw heck I'd ride Force... if apple did not exist it would be up to microsoft to invent them (applogies to voltaire)
shimano is losing theire edge and grasping - new DA carbon chainset.. ugh. the new wheels are better than the last set, cracks in the armour

Last edited by JFO-NY; 11-11-07 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 11-11-07, 01:50 AM
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@flashbazbo: your issue is geography. "Remember that the primary goal of an LBS is NOT entertaining you with cool stuff. If they've got cool stuff there all year and end up inventorying it at the start of the next year, and the next year, and the next year, they're dead. The primary goal of an LBS is making a living -- turning a profit. Clearly, your LBS doesn't think Campy and SRAM will do that for him. (He is almost certainly right.)

up in NY it is his primary goal - because ther is another 10 LBSs I can go to who will. Here the lowest common denominator doent get the win. Im sure the cartel of trek/cannondale/specialized make bank. but the real riders and shop talk is about more than a monoculture. Yes all businessmen want to make bank - thats the point. but the density of competition (from me to you or me to hong kong) gives you niches, adventure or oblivion.
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Old 11-11-07, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Does Shimano dominate the fishing gear market too?
Compatable with my tiagra shifters??
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
tiagra.jpg (36.7 KB, 36 views)
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Old 11-11-07, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by nitropowered
Also, Campy does not offer huge OE discounts to manufacturers like Shimano does. They simply cannot do it. I read somewhere that if a high volume manufacturer (Giant) wanted to OE spec a road bike with Chorus/Centaur, they would probably decline. They would not be able to supply enough groups to meet demand. And also the fact they want to stay an exclusive elite brand.

Come to the shop I work at. Yes we don't stock Campy equipped bikes (because none of our lines offer it), but I personally, and a former employee/friend/teammate ride Record Equipped bikes. We'll let you take it out for a short spin to try it out. We then can work on a custom build.
Campagnolo seems reluctant to sub out production to the orient. That and the incredible shrinking dollar are really killing them in the market. I use Campy on all my road bikes. It wouldn't bother me if they made their parts in Taiwan. Quality would probably be better and price surely lower.

Tim
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Old 11-11-07, 05:27 AM
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I love the STI shifters, there are positions on the drops where you can't reach that campy thumb tab, but with the shimano shifter, I can reach it from anywhere on the drops
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Old 11-11-07, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by acorn_user
But Shimano doesn't make clothing? What kind of markey domination is that? Wusses...

The situation is different in Europe, but not hugely. What gets me is that Campagnolo groupset, when bought from an online retailer like probikekit, for example, are typically cheaper than Shimano groups. So Shimans OEM discounts must be spectacular.

I asked an LBS about a Campagnolo cross bike and they wondering why I might do that. In my case, it's because I hate STI.
explain.
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Old 11-11-07, 05:53 AM
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I'd bet the reason Shimano shows up on so many bikes has nothing to do with performance. They probably have shorter lead times or more consistant delivery performance than the competition. If you're a bike maker who do you buy from, the guy with great stuff who misses shipments and shuts down your factory or the guy with great stuff who never misses a shipment date?
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Old 11-11-07, 06:58 AM
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Giant in Australia sold a TCR Composite Euro with 10 speed Centaur as a 2005 model. I just did a quick search, and it sold for the same price as the Ultegra bike with the same frame. You don't see many: I've only ever seen 1 that I noticed. For most people, Ultegra or Centaur bike for the same price = Ultegra.
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