pedal striking front wheel
11-10-07, 01:56 PM
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pedal striking front wheel
I just got a new road bike that is more my size (been riding a 56 and switched to 54) and when i turn the front wheel hard, my pedal (or actually the front of my clips) hits the back of the fron wheel. Is this normal for a road bike? or is the geometry way off? or too tight? never had a bike that did this before.
11-10-07, 02:01 PM
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If you think that's bad try a track bike. Anyways, you're going to have to live with it. Toe overlap will only occur during low speed, tight turns.
Unless it doesn't.
Unless it doesn't.
11-10-07, 02:07 PM
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You should live with it. You can get bikes that have different geometries, but they are not as good for real riding. Some custom manufacturers, like Seven, will build you a bike where that doesn't happen, but it's generally not recommended.
Last edited by Smorgasbord42; 11-10-07 at 06:37 PM.
11-10-07, 03:50 PM
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- wheelbase is an important measurement... i only have one bike where toe overlap isn't a problem... unfortunately, most modern road bikes offer toe overlap as a 'feature' (and part of the design)... touring bikes generally do not have toe overlap...
11-10-07, 04:20 PM
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It's an issue with pretty much any bike. You never turn the wheel much when you're going fast because you'd flip right over. You mostly just lean. You'll get used to positioning your feet when you're going slow or trackstanding.
11-10-07, 06:42 PM
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OK, found my reference. Here's what Seven Cycles has to say about Toe Overlap:
Understanding Toe Overlap
Toe overlap is an often misunderstood phenomenon that refers to the tip of your shoe touching or overlapping your bike's front tire under one relatively rare and specific circumstance: if your feet are positioned at 3:00 and 9:00 and you simultaneously turn your front wheel sharply in the direction of your forward foot—the one positioned at 3:00—while riding at very slow speed.
Toe overlap is not a flaw in the bike's design. In fact, it exists on many road bikes. The reason and extent to which it exists relates to the bike frame geometry and the choice of components.
What is the tradeoff of designing a bike specifically to eliminate toe overlap?
At Seven, optimized performance and predictable handling are the primary drivers of our frame design philosophy. Our view is that high-speed handling and safety is more important than the potential risk toe overlap presents in your driveway or a parking lot. So if instead we were to design a frame around the specific goal of eliminating toe overlap, the bike's handling could become less predictable and even potentially dangerous. Remember, toe overlap is only an issue under one specific
and avoidable circumstance. By contrast, poor handling resultant from compromising a frame's design
will always be a factor when you ride.
Avoiding a toe overlap incident.
Many road bikes have some degree of toe overlap. Avoiding a toe overlap incident is something you learn
much in the same way one learns not to fall over when clipping out of clipless pedals at a stop sign. Each of these situations can be scary at first, but eventually become second nature.
For example, being locked into clipless pedals themselves is not dangerous. It's what you do when you come to a stop. The same is true for toe overlap; the potential for danger depends on what you do when you slow way down. You must avoid turning your wheel sharply while your feet are positioned at 3:00 and 9:00.
The reason toe overlap is only a consideration at very slow speeds is that if you tried to turn your front wheel sharply at higher speeds, you would likely crash before your shoe had a chance to touch your front wheel. Steering a bike takes very little effort; it's a matter of adjusting your body weight and gently turning your front wheel slightly. Turning the front wheel sharply under any circumstances is dangerous.
How can your retailer help?
Similar to learning how to safely open and close a quick release skewer or ride with clipless pedals, your retailer can play an important role in helping your understand the tradeoffs associated with toe overlap and helping you learn to avoid a toe overlap incident.
Summary
To be clear, there is a potential risk of danger associated with toe overlap, though it is only a concern under a relatively rare and specific circumstance that is avoidable by the rider. On the other hand, designing a bike with the specific goal of eliminating toe overlap could result in poor handling and less predictability, which could present it's own set of risks, particularly under high speeds. Seven's preference is to design a frame with the goal of optimized performance and predictable handling rather than the elimination of toe overlap. However, understanding the tradeoffs is up to you and your retailer and the choice is ultimately yours.
Therefore, IF YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TOE OVERLAP, PLEASE BE SURE TO CHECK THE "NO"
BOX UNDER "TOE OVERLAP IS ACCEPTABLE" UNDER WHEEL SIZE ON PAGE 11. In addition, please
make sure you communicate this request to your Seven retailer.
Understanding Toe Overlap
Toe overlap is an often misunderstood phenomenon that refers to the tip of your shoe touching or overlapping your bike's front tire under one relatively rare and specific circumstance: if your feet are positioned at 3:00 and 9:00 and you simultaneously turn your front wheel sharply in the direction of your forward foot—the one positioned at 3:00—while riding at very slow speed.
Toe overlap is not a flaw in the bike's design. In fact, it exists on many road bikes. The reason and extent to which it exists relates to the bike frame geometry and the choice of components.
What is the tradeoff of designing a bike specifically to eliminate toe overlap?
At Seven, optimized performance and predictable handling are the primary drivers of our frame design philosophy. Our view is that high-speed handling and safety is more important than the potential risk toe overlap presents in your driveway or a parking lot. So if instead we were to design a frame around the specific goal of eliminating toe overlap, the bike's handling could become less predictable and even potentially dangerous. Remember, toe overlap is only an issue under one specific
and avoidable circumstance. By contrast, poor handling resultant from compromising a frame's design
will always be a factor when you ride.
Avoiding a toe overlap incident.
Many road bikes have some degree of toe overlap. Avoiding a toe overlap incident is something you learn
much in the same way one learns not to fall over when clipping out of clipless pedals at a stop sign. Each of these situations can be scary at first, but eventually become second nature.
For example, being locked into clipless pedals themselves is not dangerous. It's what you do when you come to a stop. The same is true for toe overlap; the potential for danger depends on what you do when you slow way down. You must avoid turning your wheel sharply while your feet are positioned at 3:00 and 9:00.
The reason toe overlap is only a consideration at very slow speeds is that if you tried to turn your front wheel sharply at higher speeds, you would likely crash before your shoe had a chance to touch your front wheel. Steering a bike takes very little effort; it's a matter of adjusting your body weight and gently turning your front wheel slightly. Turning the front wheel sharply under any circumstances is dangerous.
How can your retailer help?
Similar to learning how to safely open and close a quick release skewer or ride with clipless pedals, your retailer can play an important role in helping your understand the tradeoffs associated with toe overlap and helping you learn to avoid a toe overlap incident.
Summary
To be clear, there is a potential risk of danger associated with toe overlap, though it is only a concern under a relatively rare and specific circumstance that is avoidable by the rider. On the other hand, designing a bike with the specific goal of eliminating toe overlap could result in poor handling and less predictability, which could present it's own set of risks, particularly under high speeds. Seven's preference is to design a frame with the goal of optimized performance and predictable handling rather than the elimination of toe overlap. However, understanding the tradeoffs is up to you and your retailer and the choice is ultimately yours.
Therefore, IF YOU ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TOE OVERLAP, PLEASE BE SURE TO CHECK THE "NO"
BOX UNDER "TOE OVERLAP IS ACCEPTABLE" UNDER WHEEL SIZE ON PAGE 11. In addition, please
make sure you communicate this request to your Seven retailer.
11-10-07, 06:49 PM
#13
Prefers Cicero
As a commuter I have Axiom fenders with struts that protude a bit, so I have to be careful not to hit them with my toes. The strut tips had plastic caps on them but I've destroyed those. But if I had no fenders I wouldn't consider it a problem. Just pedal back and forth half strokes with the opposite pedal forward so your other foot doesn't come all the way around.
