markwebb

Why does IF have such a cult-like following? Why are they all the rave? Why are they thought to be so awesome fantastic?

I am referencing specifically the IF Steel Crown Jewels.

This is not a troll nor is it a schill. I am just wondering what - in your opinion - makes these bikes so special? They are 853 steel, tig welded, but so were Lemonds Zurichs and Maillot Jaunes from a few years ago, and so are some other frame manufacturers.

I bought an IF on eBay recently. I had one a while ago, too. I'm just wondering what other riders see in these bikes that make them so special and superior to other bikes?

With lugged steel bikes you can often see a difference in how finely a lugged bike is finished - the lugs can be works of art. The craftsmanship of the brazing. Etc. To me, a tig welded steel frame may not have the same "soul" - but IF's seem to have plenty of soul



What do you think????

Da Tinker

I own an IF Crown Jewel. It's not all 853 steel, they often mix alloys.

Mine is custom made to fit not only my body, but how I ride & what I want the bike to do. Part of the IF fitting process is a 2 page Q&A session about your current ride, what you like & dislike about it, what ride qualities you want in the new bike, what kind of rides you will take it on.

I'm tough to fit, with long legs, a short torso & 6'3". I wanted a bike for fast recreational rides and regular centuries. I wanted confident handling & did not need 'take your hands off the bars and look at the scenery stability'. And that's just what I got: first bike I have ever ridden a century in with NO back pain, corners like a cat on carpet & she reads my mind on handling. Because she's exactly what I wanted. But perhaps not what you wanted.

But I do miss the lugs. Perhaps a faux lug paint job next time?

CharlieWoo

Does IF == Custom?

markwebb

Reads your mind on handling, but not with take your hands off bars stability seems contradictory.

markwebb

Yeah...you can get them custom. But I've called a few shops and they have some IF's in stock, and you can also buy them new. I'm not referring to a custom fitted/custom made IF - I'm talking about a stock IF or one bought used, so the custom variable would not apply in my question about what makes them DA BOMB.

terry b

Small scale mfgr + happy customers + internet = cult following.

Same thing can be said about Serotta, Seven, Vanilla, Sachs and all the other big and small builders that produce a decent product and meet their customer's expectations.

There is nothing special about a TIG-welded 853 frame until it becomes very expensive and very exclusive. Then, lots of people want them. It's the same with all luxe products, low production and elevated perceived brand value equals oohs and aahs and waiting lists.

One of these days I hope to find one used, simply because I want one. I'd never consider dropping full price on a custom bike whose builder would force me to use their dealer network. It's not the kind of relationship I want if I'm doing a custom project. But I do think they're cool looking, I like steel frames and the right sub-$1000 frame will show up, eventually.

operator

Because it's boutique.

Da Tinker

Oh, no. It's two separate qualities, at least for me. A very stable bike may take a lot to start a turn, to overcome that stability. Plus a lot has to do with weight distribution. Hands off the bars leaves the bike very light in the front end, which can cause minor road bumps to put it off line.

Coyote2

I'm not sure that they are all that popular, at least not in the few states in which I have ridden -- I've seen maybe two in my life, outside of shops.

There is nothing special about IF's steel bikes that you can't get (often for far less $$$) from other custom builders.

markwebb

Maybe you don't see a lot of them because they don't make a lot of them

They ain't a mega-company like Trek. They are finely hand-crafted works of art, or so I'm told.

Coyote2

That kind of statement, and some of your earlier superlatives, are meaningless. If you are so convinced that IF makes such superior steel bikes, then tell us why in concrete terms; and until you can do that, don't denigrate other people's opinions -- especially since you asked for them.

Again, I will simply point out that custom tig-welded steel bikes can be obtained from dozens of good builders, most selling for far less money than IF. There is no magic involved in building bike frames. There is no magic involved in determing fit and geometry. There is no magic involved in painting metal.

IF makes nice bikes, and that is all.

markwebb

Coyote2 - if what I said denigrated you, then ya gotta go to the store, buy a thicker skin, and stay off the 'net cause you are much too easily offended

I am asking why they are so revered, and I'm using superlatives often equated with these bikes. They do have a cult-like following and are well regarded, and I'd like to know why.

It's probably a pretty fair statement that you'll not see a lot of them because they don't make that many. Same for Vanilla, Waterford, and a few other boutique brands. I'm not sure that you not seeing many of them has anything to do with their popularity, but more to do with how many there are.
These small-manufacturer brands are not going to be seen as much as you C'dales and Treks.

Stay cool, and keep spinning. Peace, Love, and Bobby Sherman.

mayukawa

I don't think much about IF bikes...way overpriced for what you get.

brianallan

There isn't "magic" to bike fitting and building bike frames, but there's a lot of skill and experience that goes a long way. Take giant, who makes 4 or so sizes in their road line. Can you more easily achieve a better fit with a company that offers 10 sizes? Probably. Especially when you consider some people with wierd body types like myself. I'm 6'1", but ride a 56 or so top tube because i have long legs and a short torso. Wouldn't you concede that there's a big difference between the handling and 'performance' of different geometries/materials? Custom can achieve many of the metrics people consider important in their riding style. Low or high bottom brackets, short head tubes, various seat and head tube angles, etc..

stapfam

There is something that a small builder adds to his frames that a Well known big brand name cannot give. I was fortunate to get a test ride on a small European manufacturers bike earlier in the year. That ride convinced me that My Cheap giant OCR just was not good enough. Tried out a few other "Small" Manufacturers bikes and some were to my taste- and some were not.

Upshot was that I ordered the frame and forks and Built up the bike. Here is a bike that is exceptionally well made- has the right bits on for me- Is lightweight and handles better than any other bike I have tried that I can afford. The bike is a Boreas Ignis. Never heard of it? Well there are lots of small manufacturers out there like Boreas making superb Frames or bikes that you will never hear of. Just got to hunt them out.

https://www.boreas-bikes.dk/pages/ignis.html

Demit

Yep, you can get them in custom sizes. Over-priced custom sizes.

But if you are getting something unnecessary like a custom frame, you probably don't care.

Also, that comment about giant frames is really misleading, they are completely different geometry after all. In truth, a Giant frame would work well with your body type.

HAMMER MAN

i wouldn't say I.F. is rave exceptional they are good bikes though, and I believe any custom builder is inmo far better than what comes off of the shelf like Trek, specialized or whatever, especially for those that have hard fitting size style type bodies.

I owned an I.F. Crown jewel about two years ago, welds were ok. paint job was really outstanding and the ride was so-so, the people are nice to work with.
I was some what disappointed because I could never get comfortable on the bike and it was suppose to be custom made. After about 1.5 years of messing around with it as well as the shop that I bought it from when I ordered it, we completely re-measured everything on the bike, head/seat angle, TT length, seat mast btm bracket drop etcetra. it was completely wrong. Somewhere along the line it got messed up either through the dealer or I.F. in production.
Lesson learned: on ordering a custom frame check and measure everything when you receive it before accepting the bike.
They the bike shop took it back and i got another frome from them with loads of apologies.

Rather than call or cause a problem with I.F. they sold the I.F. off of the floor.
The frame I picked was a Trek 5.5 Madone, nice ride, light, comfortable but just did not care for it.

Sold the trek and bought a Serotta, custom made no problems with fit or ride. My waterford is also custom made no problems.. I would buy another I.F but I would especially make sure it is what I ordered by checking everything out.

Personally I beleive everyone who buys a bike rather custom or off of the shelf they are all good, it depends on the individual and their preferences,style of riding and likes and dislikes.

Coyote2

I absolutely agree with all of the above; and there are many custom builders producing nice frames. IF is not unique, though it does charge much more than most others.

And to Markwebb: If you are so convinced that IF makes such wonderful bikes, then why the insecurity and the desperate need for affirmation of your decision from strangers on the internet?

terry b

Precisely the reason why I think if you're going to go custom, drop the middle man and work with a builder that a) you can talk to directly as often as you want, b) will give you a detailed Autocad drawing with your proposed design and c) has a reputation of making things right if they go wrong.

I'm not knocking the custom houses that work through a dealer network per se, but for every ten happy customers there are one or two who end up with something that is weird. A simple search of the Serottas and Sevens of eBay often turns up these really strange looking designs - huge head tubes with short top tubes, 2CM extensions, 74STAs on a size 64. Makes me wonder what they were doing in the design shop that day.

When I drop that kind of dough on a custom frame, I want as much control as possible. It is my dollar after all.

markwebb

Interesting comments. Thanks, everyone.

Nessism

I have nothing against IF either, but $2200 for a conventional TIG welded steel frame w/carbon fork is a lot of money. I'd much rather work with a smaller builder as Terry states...or watch the used market for a somebodies cast off.

markwebb

I decided to sell the bike, and immediately found a buyer. They seem to be exceptionally sought after and there are not that many around.

That or my price was way to low

I had an IF earlier this year. It was truly exquisite. It rode very well, sorta comparable to my Mercian KOM. It was a little more racy in handling, due in most part to the different fork rake and slightly shorter wheelbase. I sold it because it was a tad too small. It was beautiful. Every large group ride I went on I always had a crowd at the SAG stops admiring my bike. Eeveryone loved it. It was a real conversation piece.