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Hey guys,

I recently purchased a Lemond Tourmalet on eBay for my wife. The listing shows the bike as like new with no obvious scratches, dents, etc. I also confirmed this with the seller before bidding. Anyways, the bike arrived today and was great with the exception of a large scratch right on the "Lemond" name on the downtube. This was clearly done during shipping since the front tire was sitting on this part of the frame when I opened the box and the white paint had rubbed off to the rim of the front wheel. The downtube had a small piece of cardboard around it, but it only covered 75% of the tube so this portion was completely unprotected.

What would you guys recommend I do? My wife is pretty bummed that her "Like New" bike is gorgeous on one side and not the other. I'd prefer not to return the bike since the rest of it is perfect. The bike was packaged/shipped by the seller's LBS in Idaho and was insured to $900 (more than what I paid) via UPS. I'm wondering if I can get some money from either the LBS or UPS in order to repaint (can I send this to Lemond to have it redone?) or to make up for the loss in value. Any advice is appreciated!

cedric

This isn't the shipping company's fault, and you wont be able to blame it on them unless there were some sizable holes in the box (that you pointed out to the delivery guy upon delivery.) It's the seller's fault for not packaging it right.

You paid for a bike that had "no scratches" and it came with a scratch. Looks like you should get (at least part of) your money back.

deadly downtube

tell your friends you got that frightful scratch from popping a sweet wheelie?

Kurt Erlenbach

Let it go. Unless you bought it to sit in the garage, it's going to get scratched eventually. Garage bikes are perfect. Real bikes are not.

Mudu93

It never hurts to ask for some form of reimbursement, but a repaint for a scratch like that seems to be a bit of overkill. If it was a good deal, I say have her ride it like she stole it and add that scratch to the list of war wounds a well ridden bike will recieve. My $.02.

oilman_15106

This is bs. Poor packing is my biggest complaint with ebay sellers. Things thrown in a bag and then put thru the USPS or even worse UPS. It is a miracle that stuff comes in one peice.

Refund. or open a claim. You did not get what you paid for.

revolator

+1

If you paid $1 or less for shipping, I wouldn't feel as bad. If you paid a reasonable price shipping and handling charges, then you should definitely expect it to reasonably be packed properly.

kudude

one side of me says to let it go. i received a well packaged frame off ebay recently, and I was very happy. I think i would have been sad if it had been scratched like that. after 1000 miles there are a few nicks and more cable rub as well as a bit of a chainstay scratch from repeatedly dropping my chain. in the long run you won't care, but right now it stings

WNG

It depends on how much you had spent on it and its shipping. UPS is not responsible unless the box shows signs of damage.
It's the fault of the seller.
That appears to be a rather minor scratch. But if it detracts from your brag and pose potential, then get another frame. If it's a matter of principle of gentleman's agreement that it's brand new no scratches...get another frame.
If it's the riding that matters....Keep it. see if seller will help compensate for repair.
Find a good auto pin striper in your area, I bet they can do a decent job filling in that 'L'.

spdrcr5

Contact the seller and let them know what happened. Explain that the bike is for your wife and she's upset withe now scratched frame. Tell them that you'd rather get it repaired and want to file a claim with the LBS and for them to help you in the matter. Explain that UPS is not responsible and you won't partake in a fraud if they suggest it.

Contact LeMond and ask what the cost to repaint/repair the paint would be, send along pictures to them as well. This way you'll have an idea of costs to tell the seller.

ChunkyB

It was obviously packed poorly, and you should get a refund if you want one. If the seller doesn't give you one, file a complaint with PayPal, and you will be able to get a refund. The deal is that the seller has to get the item to you in the condition described, not that he has to ship it in the condition described. If it gets damaged in shipping, you get a refund, and he has to deal with getting a refund from the shipping company (which he won't be able to do because it was obviously poorly packed).

I have experience with this, and that's how it works. It might take a while for PayPal to make a decision, if it comes to that, but you'll get your money.

adam

Definitely bring this up with the seller - he/she is supposed to ship it so it will arrive in the agreed to condition.

brundle_fly

Bad packaging is the sellers fault.
If it hasn't arrived "as described" I would want compensation,or a refund.If he's unwilling to do either then take it up with Paypal and they will refund your payment to him and block his account.This ain't $50 or $100 we are talking about,you have folked out quite a considerable amount of money.

unbelievably

If it was insured,
how is this not an issue of being damaged in freight?

ovrrdrive

It's an issue of improper packing resulting in carrier damage. This is what's known as concealed damage. If the package was insured you can try filing a claim against it, but be forewarned that they usually pay out damages in the neighborhood of $.50 per pound of shipping weight and I'm guessing the recorded shipping weight was what, 20 pounds?

I had some motorcycles shipped to me on a common carrier and they did about $900 of honest carrier damage that was all cosmetic. I managed to get they to pay out $267 pretty easily, but they wouldn't budge on the rest of it. I chalked it up to a lesson learned.

I think you'll have better luck and results going after the LBS. However, you'll probably at best get 2 small cans of matching paint to fix it up...

spdrcr5

Because it's your responsibility to properly package an item. The carrier, in this case UPS can't be held responsible for poor packing. If you were to ship a box full of china plates and they all arrived broken but none of the plates were protected with foam, newspaper or anything else to protect them how could that be the carriers fault?

What UPS or their insurance provider will do is ask to see the box. If the box is fully intact then the carrier is not at fault for any damage. If there is visible damage in the box where the scratch is located on the frame then UPS would be liable.

I had a similar issue a few years ago. The seller of a silver chest improperly packaged the chest then when it arrived damaged, actually broken they said to file a claim with UPS. I refused and asked for my money back. They refused, gave me bad feedback so I filed a complaint with eBay and PayPal. I got my money back, my feedback restored and they lost their ability to sell on eBay, use PayPal and UPS filed a false insurance claim against them because they stupidly tried to get UPS to pay for the damages! lol

unbelievably

To say,
that the box that it was shipped in was handled with kid gloves might be a stretch.
However,
the box in question was packed "professionally" leads me to believe
that the bicycle was damaged in freight as a result of handling error.
The bike was insured for damage during freight...
...go file a claim! Get statements from the LBS that packed it up.
Don't tell the insurer that the LBS did a poor job packing. It's not fraud.

spdrcr5

How can you say it wouldn't be fraud? Look at the picture of the poor job of protecting the frame. The OP even said it was a poor packing job. If the box is intact, which it sounds as though it is then the shipping company can't be held responsible.

gfrance

Shippers and packers responsibility pure and simple. I went through this myself last spring. My damage was much worse. I was a fool and an idiot in hindsight. I took it but tried to negotiate some financial compensation but never got it. I just had to have the bike!! I took it to a frame builder and it took 4 months and several hundred dollars to get it as good as new. He did beautiful work. But it was SO not worth it.

Send it back if it bothers you now. If you can live with it keep it. You could use some touch up paint for a do it yourself job that won't last but would help.

gfrance

This is also why I'll never again buy a complete bike on eBay again. Frame sets are not usually a problem. The issue with complete bikes and shipping, is the wheel hub or other moving parts rubbing against the frame paint. Just not enough room in a box for all the pieces. I'm sure some people pack complete bikes properly, but I won't trust anyone anymore on this. It's an all too common story.

jimbud

I'd have a hard time letting it go. Contact the seller and see if you can come up with a agreement on getting the paint repaired by someone in your area. This is one of the reasons I ship wheels separate when shipping a bike.

powerglide

Bad packing = sellers fault
Be prepared to send back for full refund.
Hopefully seller would rather compensate you a bit instead.

After 60 problem free buys on ebay, the last 2 items (expensive CD Changers) both arrived horribly packed and blwon to smithereens. In both cases, I calmly contacted seller, sent pictures, got immediate refund.

tumbler

Thanks for all the suggestions, you guys are great! I have contacted the seller and asked them to inform the LBS of the damage and let them know that I would like compensation to have it repaired or cover the loss in value. I provided many pictures of the damage, which is clearly due to their shoddy packaging.

I purchased my Lemond on eBay as well and was thrilled with the amount of form, wrapping, and padding used to ensure the bike arrived without a scratch. That seller used a LBS that clearly had experience in shipping expensive bikes. I was really disappointed to see the packaging on my wife's bike since the seller stated that she watched the shop package it and that "it was well packaged and insured to $900".

Sure, the bike will eventually get scratches.... but don't I have the right to "earn" these rather than someone else? I've had other bikes close to 10 years with nicks and dings here and there from a rock, etc. but never a rash like this. Plus it was supposedly like new, so needless to say, unpacking an expensive purchase and finding a glaring defect (albeit cosmetic) tends to leave a sour taste in your mouth.

Pepper Grinder

^Absolutely, the LBS that packed it should be held responsible for their shoddy packing job.

ChunkyB

I agree, but you have to let the seller take care of that. As far as you're concerned, get your refund from him, and be done with it. Let him deal with the LBS.

As far as repairing it, that's a pretty big gash, and I would just keep looking for something similar. I know it's hard to give up a sweet bike/deal, but you'll probably be happy you did in the long run.