Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Curious about toe/wheel overlap...

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Curious about toe/wheel overlap...

Old 03-11-08, 09:08 PM
  #1  
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,491

Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 315 Times in 210 Posts
Curious about toe/wheel overlap...

I am surprised at how many of my roadie friends' bikes have toe to front wheel overlap and all of them think it is normal and no problem. Scares the begeezus out of me when now and then we switch bikes. (I work at a bike shop, so I often ride someone else's bike to find a noise or something).

I have five bikes. None of them - road bike included - have toe-wheel overlap.

So my question: How many of you roadies have bikes with tight enuff geometry or you have large enuff feet to have your toe overlap or touch your front wheel when you turn sharply? Has it EVER made you crash?

Thanks

Joey
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:12 PM
  #2  
u mad
 
Mike V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Normal and I have never crashed.

MV
Mike V is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:16 PM
  #3  
Climbing is fun!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 223

Bikes: Lemond Zurich, 1985 custom SLX w/c-record (under construction)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Normal, never had an issue. The only time that this will come up is at very low speed where the wheel actually needs to turn as opposed to the normal counter-steering.
RelevantCycling is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:17 PM
  #4  
Run What 'Ya Brung
 
bonechilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's present is just about any frame under 54CM or so with 700c wheels. It's just a design compromise that smaller riders have to live with, if they want to have big boy wheels.

As a short rider at 5'4", I have this in every single road bike I own, and have owned, even my super-relaxed Trek 420 light-touring bike, and my Surly Cross-Check (another bike with huge fork rake). It's the worst on my track bike, where the wheel practically hits the pedals.

Anyway, you just learn to deal with it, and it's never an issue because you really only turn the wheel enough to fit your toes at very low speeds.
bonechilling is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:20 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't like it but it has not been a problem yet. I do pay attention when I am going slow and turning. I guess that 100mm cranks would cure the problem or maybe I could go with a 20" front wheel. naw a 20" front wheel would make my seat to bar drop too much and cause my cranks to hit the ground on the down stroke so I guess that it is 100mm cranks for me.
jim p is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:21 PM
  #6  
proud of his bunny
 
Zinn-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UCSC
Posts: 885

Bikes: 2006 Masi Gran Corsa Premio custom build: Full 105, Easton EC70 fork, Easton Circuit Wheelset // 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper (stock for now)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
toe overlap isn't really a problem. the only time you actually turn the wheel enough for your toe to overlap is when you're going really slow. if you turned it that much at speed, you'd crash anyway, toe overlap or not. if your riding form is good, you should never have toe overlap anyway.

it can be minimized by using a fork with more rake, but that changes your handling characteristics a bit and is probably not worth it. live with it, it's not gonna hurt you.
Zinn-X is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:22 PM
  #7  
proud of his bunny
 
Zinn-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UCSC
Posts: 885

Bikes: 2006 Masi Gran Corsa Premio custom build: Full 105, Easton EC70 fork, Easton Circuit Wheelset // 2007 Specialized Stumpjumper (stock for now)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jim p
I don't like it but it has not been a problem yet. I do pay attention when I am going slow and turning. I guess that 100mm cranks would cure the problem or maybe I could go with a 20" front wheel. naw a 20" front wheel would make my seat to bar drop too much and cause my cranks to hit the ground on the down stroke so I guess that it is 100mm cranks for me.
100mm cranks? wtf? that's tiny. are you sure you have your measurements straight?
Zinn-X is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:29 PM
  #8  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Toe overlap fall: 0
forgetting to unclip fall: at least a dozen.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:33 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
AnthonyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Queanbeyan, Australia.
Posts: 4,135
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3450 Post(s)
Liked 420 Times in 289 Posts
I have a very small custom frame with 650c wheels and a 320mm reach (xs 700c wheel frames have a reach of 360mm) and I still JUST had toe overlap with 140mm cranks!! but I cured the toe overlap issues by fitting 135mm cranks!!!

I've mostly riden bikes with toe overlap anyway. Its not a problem.

Regards, Anthony
AnthonyG is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 09:39 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
damnpoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monterey Bay Area
Posts: 477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AEO
Toe overlap fall: 0
forgetting to unclip fall: at least a dozen.
Ditto.
damnpoor is offline  
Old 03-11-08, 11:15 PM
  #11  
Just a girl on a bike...
 
SpaceNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix/Michigan
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have toe overlap on my road bike though its a 47cm frame so that's not surprising. I havn't found it to be a problem and I'm a new rider so I would expect it to cause me trouble now if it was going to.
SpaceNerd is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 07:21 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
skiracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 335

Bikes: 2004 Giant TCR 2 Composite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AEO
Toe overlap fall: 0
forgetting to unclip fall: at least a dozen.
Got my first "proper" road bike last summer and started with clipless pedals right away; on the first day I rode I almost fell but was saved by a friend, since then never had any issues... The guy I bought my bike from told me to always get out of the seat when slowing down or coming to a stop... I suppose you can forget to do that too but do it a few times and it will just become a habit. I don't necessarily do that everytime now but at the begining I'd say it was useful and perhaps was a factor in avoiding the falls... I don't know.
skiracing is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 07:43 AM
  #13  
Look at all these buttons
 
EivlEvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Zinn-X
toe overlap isn't really a problem. the only time you actually turn the wheel enough for your toe to overlap is when you're going really slow. if you turned it that much at speed, you'd crash anyway, toe overlap or not. if your riding form is good, you should never have toe overlap anyway.

it can be minimized by using a fork with more rake, but that changes your handling characteristics a bit and is probably not worth it. live with it, it's not gonna hurt you.
+1 Just had a huge discussion about this in ss/fg.

If you're crashing due to toe overlap... you have bigger fish to fry.
EivlEvo is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 08:39 AM
  #14  
Race to train
 
jrennie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: suffering on the back
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I ride a 55-56 and have a fair amout of toe overlap. The geometry is pretty tight but the only time it is an issue is trying to track stand at a light if your not cautious
jrennie is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 08:55 AM
  #15  
.....
 
Jynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 4,816

Bikes: 2006 Cannondale CAAD8

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I am surprised at how many of my roadie friends' bikes have toe to front wheel overlap and all of them think it is normal and no problem. Scares the begeezus out of me when now and then we switch bikes. (I work at a bike shop, so I often ride someone else's bike to find a noise or something).

I have five bikes. None of them - road bike included - have toe-wheel overlap.

So my question: How many of you roadies have bikes with tight enuff geometry or you have large enuff feet to have your toe overlap or touch your front wheel when you turn sharply? Has it EVER made you crash?

Thanks

Joey
It is.
__________________
Weight Listing Index (Feel Free to add to it!)

Buy your bike parts here
Jynx is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 10:03 AM
  #16  
Geosynchronous Falconeer
 
recursive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 6,312

Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
All my bikes overlap. Even the fixed gear. I've never fallen because of it. On a road bike, I can't even understand how it can be an issue. Any time you're turning that tightly, just stop pedalling. Problem solved!
__________________
Bring the pain.
recursive is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 10:39 AM
  #17  
bannned
 
steaktaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: philadelphia
Posts: 2,228

Bikes: black bike, white bike, blue bike, yellow bike, silver bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm right-footed when it comes to mounting my bike. Making a left from a stop (like when you're in a turn lane), you can get the wheel caught on the outside of your right foot. Have I ever crashed because of this? No.

Also, this never happens on my fixie where toe overlap is more crucial... probably because I'm more wary of it then?
__________________
steaktaco.com <-- poohoopsies.

steaktaco is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 11:50 AM
  #18  
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,273

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times in 353 Posts
Originally Posted by recursive
All my bikes overlap. Even the fixed gear. I've never fallen because of it. On a road bike, I can't even understand how it can be an issue. Any time you're turning that tightly, just stop pedalling. Problem solved!
+1. And if you happen to rub your foot against the tire at 2mph, its not going to make you fall. Freaking out about it, however, could make you fall.

So OP simply don't let it scare the beegezus out of you.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 12:31 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,401

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked 179 Times in 101 Posts
I have overlap on all my bikes including the tandem (!).

With toe clips it was worse.

I now turn with my feet up or down sort of automatically.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 12:40 PM
  #20  
Fattest Thin Man
 
Az B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Posts: 2,648

Bikes: Miyata 610, Vinco V, Rocky Mountain Element

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
It has a lot to do with many people riding very aggresive geometry frames and the current fashion of riding bikes that are too small. I've got enormous feet and long crank arms (175mm) and my feet barely touch on my main road bike. Plenty of room on the touring bike, and the track bike has some overlap because of the tight geometry even with the shorter cranks.

It's not really a problem, even on the track bike where you have no control over crank arm placement during a turn.

But it would be a non-issue for most people if they quit trying to fit thier bikes like they're racing. Except, of course, for those racing.

Az
Az B is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 12:49 PM
  #21  
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 18,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 48 Posts
If you had toe overlap, you'll get used to it in a day.
Same thing with a fixed gear where you have almost no control over pedal position, they become a non-issue after a couple of rides.
You will instinctively avoid toe to wheel contact when making very slow tight turns, like making a U-turn on a sidewalk, for instance.
roadfix is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 12:54 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Originally Posted by recursive
All my bikes overlap. Even the fixed gear. I've never fallen because of it. On a road bike, I can't even understand how it can be an issue. Any time you're turning that tightly, just stop pedalling. Problem solved!
Exactly.
caloso is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 01:51 PM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
jkizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lexington KY
Posts: 874

Bikes: 1970s or 80s concord pacer, 2007 dawes roadbike, 2005 raleigh supercourse

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
only one of my bikes has it, and its the bike i race. it only bothers me when im getting into the pedals and not at any speed. otherwise, i lean into the turn enough that i dont need to crank my wheel that much.
jkizzle is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 01:51 PM
  #24  
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,584

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times in 392 Posts
I ride a 54 and a 55. Both have overlap, but never had a problem with it.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 03-12-08, 01:57 PM
  #25  
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913

Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by roadfix
If you had toe overlap, you'll get used to it in a day.
Same thing with a fixed gear where you have almost no control over pedal position, they become a non-issue after a couple of rides.
You will instinctively avoid toe to wheel contact when making very slow tight turns, like making a U-turn on a sidewalk, for instance.
Took a month before I even noticed I had toe overlap- And was only when the LBS asked if it was causing a problem. It wasn't and isn't.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.