tomoscotto

i am planning to build some training wheels, that i would also use for long events like around the bay in a day (250km), and eventually paris-brest-paris. i am 70kg

for my race wheels i use american classic 420's which from one side of the rim to the other is quite thin, so i would prefer a similar width rim so i dont have to constantly adjust it.

i am considering building up 32 hole mavic open pro rims, on ultegra hubs, DT spokes, but how many cross etc. should i do? i saw a guy with red spoke nipples, are these just as durable/ good?

what would be the end weight of the wheelset?

should i consider another rim like velocity's Deep V?

Thanks.

urbanknight

Open Pros should be fine. Probably about 1900g for the set. Red nipples are most likely alloy, which are kind of soft and only save you about 10g per wheel over brass (which are silver).

tomoscotto

also what are the spoke counts available? i know there is 36 and 32, but is there anything else?

what would a 70kg rider need?

DanielS

You could go for 28 spokes, but I would say stick to 32 unless you are really concerned about weight. Another rim to consider is the DT Swiss RR 1.1. But I think that Open Pros on Ultegra hubs would be ideal for the sort of riding you mentioned.

tomoscotto

thanks, apart from weight is their an aero advantage of going down to 28 spokes?

s4one

Open pros are good, I had them laced with Chris King hubs and they held up great! Go for Open pros or Velocity aeros.

urbanknight

Slight aero advantage for 28 spokes, but not anything to notice. I weigh 145 lb and still train on 32 spoke wheels, even on the fast group rides led by Cat 1/2 racers. Although I wouldn't blink at running 28 spokes, it's just not important for everyday training.

GernBlanston

A lot of people overbuild their front wheel. The loads on a front are a LOT less than on the rear. The rear carries more of your body weight and bears the torque you apply with your legs. If you're riding 32/32 and both wheels stay true, your front is way overbuilt.

At 70kg, I wouldn't bat an eye at a 32 rear 28 front...those wheels will be bullet-proof for you unless you decide to go mountain biking on them. On traditional wheels I ride 32/32 and I go almost 85 kg. My rear wheel goes out of true very occasionally, and my front never does...literally through 15k miles of riding and racing, I have never had to true it.

If you want wheels to get you through the PBP, I'd go with 3 cross, double-butted 1.8/2.0 rear, and 2 cross 1.8 straight gauge up front. At your weight (and even carrying some gear), those will be pretty much bullet proof. My guess is that they'll end up in the neighborhood of 1850-1950 grams (sans skewers of course) depending on the rim and hub you choose.

I like Mavic Open Pros, have had a lot of good experiences with Mavic rims. the wheels I just built for myself have Sun ME14 rims, which I also hear are quite good and are nice and lightweight.

GB

tomoscotto

thanks, GernBlanston will use all that for my build

sans skewers, have not heard of these?

have you done PBP?

michaelmc

I think he just meant "without skewers."

tomoscotto

haha my bad

within

+1 on the DT Swiss 1.1's. Double eyelets only though! 32 hole for a good solid trainer.

abqhudson

Open Pro - 32 spoke - 3X and a good hub. You can't do any better. YMWV

Hocam

Velocity aeroheads with their 'shallow' V cross section, especially the off center rear build stronger wheels for less weight.

urbanknight

The lack of eyelets bridges the gap a little, but I also heard that the off center bed is better for durability than double eyelets.

tomoscotto

ok nearly done, just a little more help?

Front
Ultegra Hub
Mavic Open Pro 28 hole Silver
[B]
Spokes, 2 cross 1.8 straight gauge, now what brand and model spoke should i use? is it possible/ worth using bladed spokes? what length spoke will i need?

Nipples, okay brass, what brand model? is it possible to get colored brass ones?

Rear
Ultegra Hub
Mavic Open Pro 32 hole Silver


Spokes 3 cross, Gernblanston you said 1.8/2.0, does that mean butting that goes down to 1.8 from 2.0 or pick one? once again what length and brand will i need?

Hocam

I know lots of people using velocity rims and have yet to see a spoke pull through. You heard right about the off center rear, it brings the non drive side tension up by reducing dish.

waterrockets 

+1 I won't be building with Open Pros any more. Aeroheads are a better value, and probably more durable. Eylets are not their savior either, as I've seen spoke hole cracks on Open Pros -- the build is more important than eyelets. Once you get a taste of how much more even the tension is on an Aerohead OC rear, your whole perspective changes. Plus, they're $44!!! Come. On.

superslomo

I built up mine with Open Pro CDs, but if it hadn't been for a good deal on a prebuilt wheel for the front I would have probably gone with Deep V's or Aeroheads.

The added weight and minimal worsening of aerodynamics by going with fewer spokes is just not worth it, to my mind. Yeah, you may have an extra gram or three, but it won't slow you down as much as having a wheel taco or go out of true. 32 or 36, 3 cross... that would be my recommendation.

I am just about a hundred kg/215 pounds... 3 cross 36 spoke wheels worked like gangbusters for me for a long while, and 32 3x have been good since.

Surferbruce

another aerohead vote...

urbanknight

Well now you know one who has, but it was the front and not the OCR rear. Velocity not only replaced the rim (they were custom built on my own hubs and spokes), but rebuilt both of the wheels (the rear tacoed from the crash that ensued) and sent them back to me quickly. Great service.

Bobby Lex

+1. (Although I weigh between 175---180 lbs.) Otherwise it's Mavic OPs on Ultegra hubs for most of my training rides including very hilly fast group rides with Pro 1/2 racers. When I'm not training on my OPs, I'm training on Mavic CXP33s which are minimally heavier and a little stronger.

Bob

GernBlanston

You can't use bladed spokes with standard Ultegra hubs, as far as I know, because the spoke holes are round.

I always use DT spokes. The gauge 1.8/2.0 means the spokes on the rear wheel are slightly thicker near the ends where the stress tends to be greater. The fronts don't need to be butted.

I'm not into colored brass nipples, but I'm sure they're out there.

Length is a question I can't answer off the top of my head. You are having someone build these, I imagine? If so, let them figure out the spoke length. If you're going to try and build them yourself, Sheldon Brown (oh we miss ya Sheldon!) has lots of good wheel building info on his web site, including, I believe, a spoke length calculator.

GB

tomoscotto

yeah i work in a bike shop and will get the mechanic to build them... but the more i can do to help the better

waterrockets 

There are ovalized bladed spokes (Aerolite, CX-Ray) that will fit through standard round spoke holes (including Ultegra).

When using round spokes, ALWAYS choose butted when possible, including the front. 2.0/1.8/2.0 on front and DS rear. 2.0/1.5/2.0 NDS rear will help with durability. Butted spokes will always build a more durable wheel than straight gauge.

For calculating spoke length, pull down Spocalc.xls, and double-check with the calculator on DT-Swiss' site.

I've seen black brass, but other colors are only common with AL.