dryh2o

I've seen posts here about various group sets like 105 or ultegra etc, but was wondering how each one is different (better?) than the other. I.E. what makes a groupset good or bad? Thanks.

the beef

Hey man. I'll start.

As groupsets increase in price, weight drops, and the materials become nicer (Sora, the lowest, has abundant plastic, while Dura-Ace, the highest, uses more alloys). Shifting becomes smoother, particularly under load (so if you're mashing up a hill, it'll be easier to shift on a higher-end group). Quality and longevity of components increases.

I typically like to say that 105 is the 'sweet spot' in terms of performance and value for most riders. Ultegra is race-worthy. Dura-Ace is the blingiest and lightest.

Also, for 2008, Sora and Tiagra are the 9-speed groups (fixed!), while 105, Ultegra, and DA are 10-speed.

redirekib

Bearings instead of bushings, lighter weight materials, bling, performance. It's what you want and think is necessary for the type of riding you will be doing.

Namenda

And stay away from that Campagnolo stuff...its crap.

dryh2o

Thanks Beef, Redirekib and Namenda for the explanations!

Those speeds refer to your casette, right? My bike's pretty old, i think it has a 7-speed casette...

the beef

Correct. With modern indexed components (where the shifter has clicks), you generally have to match all your components with components of the same 'speed'. So a 9-speed shifter has to go with a 9-speed derailleur, cassette, etc. etc.

There are of course, exceptions, but that's the general rule.

Business810

Brand loyalty aside, how do Campagnolo groups like Mirage and Veloce compare in quality to Tiagra and 105? I'm in the market for a new bike but I'm having a hard time finding any shops with Campy-equipped bikes that aren't Record and extremely expensive.

Second Mouse

Campganolo--------Shimano

------------------------2200
Mirage----------------Sora
------------------------Tiagra
Veloce-----------------------
------------------------105
Centaur--------------Ultegra
Chorus----------------------
------------------------Dura-Ace
Record----------------------

-ish

Some folks think Veloce and 105 are on a par, some people say Ultegra's better than Centaur. The Shimano purists say Dura-Ace is as good as Record.

thechemist

Rival is a real nice deal right now and to my understanding on par with Veloce and 105. Much of it is feel as well. My wife has ultegra and I have veloce. I would take veloce over ultegra anyday.

Super Guanche

You forgot about Xenon

Second Mouse

Oops. Where does it go? 2200?

the beef

Campaganolo-------Shimano------SRAM

-----------------------2200
Xenon--------------- Sora
Mirage---------------Tiagra
Veloce---------------105
Centaur--------------Ultegra------Rival
Chorus---------------Dura-Ace----Force
Record-------------------------------Red

(my personal take.)

Note: these rankings are useless and meaningless. 'How good a groupset is' is a matter of preference. But based on price/weight, I'd say that the above chart is a useful as a rough approximation of groupset 'rankings'.

dryh2o

yay a lot of names to memorize.

Second Mouse

Here's a fairly entertaining thread from another cycling forum on the subject. Mostly British folks, so they're very civil. Favorite line: "Try searching Bikeforums for this too. It comes up a lot, and usually causes a huge bust up."

Too true.

datlas 

Don't get too fixated on the gear...just ride.

Business810

Thanks - that's kind of what I expected (and what I wanted, even though it is very much personal preference). I know there is no direct way to compare it, but since all I can find at the shops near me is Shimano, I wanted to know if it was worth at least looking to try to test ride the others.

I've been looking at mostly bikes with 105, so I should probably test ride something with Veloce before I drop the money on one.

the beef

It's okay - Shimano's the main one. Very few shops these days carry anything Campagnolo (Italian), with the dollar in the crapper and everything. SRAM is gaining popularity as a high-end road manufacturer.

s4one

105s are great for the price!

mrbubbles

As long as shifter and rear derailleur pull are the same, you can mix and match anything.

Example.

Sram 7/8speed with Sram 8 speed and above rear derailleur using 7/8 speed cassette.
The 1:1 indexing is the same.

Same for Shimano.
8 Speed Rapidfire shifter using 8/9 Speed Deore RD shifting 8 speed cassette.

Campagnolo 9 speed after 2001 will work with Shimano 9 speed cassette, the cable pull and indexing is nearly identical.

I recently replaced an RD with 9 Speed Sram 9.0SL on a 7 speed drive train (7 speed shifter and cassette), shifts like butter.

The problem is finding the correct cable pull.

the beef

Yeah, which is why I said 'generally'.. I just didn't want to offer too much confusing information at once to the OP. But yes, that is correct.

slimvela

Understatement of the year



Allow me to throw in my .02 worth. I will simply say this, I prefer my Mirage groupset over my 105 anyday. In reference to my Ultegra groupset w/Rival Compact Crankset, it's about equal the Mirage. Same crispness, ease of installation/adjustment, but the Campy brifters are much nicer.

But hey, it's just my opinion based on my three current setups. (2006 105, 2007 Ultegra/Rival, 2007 Mirage).

Keep in mind that nothing beats a well adjusted drivetrain regardless of the flavor.

shayel

I thought Tiagra is 9 speed as well? (at least according to Shimano's website. Was it recently upgraded?)

the beef

Good catch! It's still 9-speed.

logdrum

No -- Rival is on par with Ultegra -- only better IMO