neospazzy

Okay. So I have ridden my SRAM Red PF RS2 for about three months now (2-3 times a week, 20-50 miles per day) and I can give an honest review about the gruppo compared to the Dura-Ace 7800 (which is on my other bike).

Design
When I got the gruppo in parts, all I can say is "WOW" ... very nice. The only thing that looked a bit out of place was the color of the brake calipers and the FD. Couldn't SRAM made those black as well (maybe carbon FD like Record)? Oh well. The rear deraillieur and the shifters look expensive. Overall, a very nice looking gruppo.

Shifting
What can I say? The RD downshifts are crisp and instant. It gives it that nice audible "CLICK" as you downshift. RD Upshifting took a bit to get used to, but after several rides, it becomes second nature. With that said, the RD shifting as a whole (both upshifting and downshifting) isn't as "smooth" as Dura-Ace. Especially the FD, Dura-Ace still has the upper hand on this one. While the Red offers the trim functionality on its FD, it isn't as smooth nor as fine-tuned like the DA. The lever are carbon, which is nice, but to me it feels a little "plasticky" and "cheap" while the DA shifters feels more substantial and durable.

Crankset
First thing I noticed was how smooth the pedaling was. It was a definite improvement over the DA, and I assume the ceramic BB got a lot to do with it. I definitely felt the lower resistance on the Red in terms of pedaling. One thing though, the teeth on the chainrings seems to wear a bit faster compared to the DA. Already some of the teeth on the large chainrings have shrunk about 40-50%. Is this normal? I had the DA for almost a year and I ride it a lot more and it doesn't show any signs of wear. Hmm. Gotta check back on this one.

Braking
I chucked the stock pads aside and replaced them with KoolStop salmon pads so I can't give an opinion about SRAM pads. From what I have read, the pads are the same from Force and Rival. The important thing is that the brakes work and my bike stops. I think it has to do more with the quality of the pads than anything. I also have the same KoolStops on the DA and I love them. No difference between the two in my opinion.

Conclusion
As I have mentioned before, the carbon shifters feel plasticky and cheap, but I think it is because I am not used to them yet. I never rode a bike with Campy Record, but I am assuming that the levers on those feel the same since they, too, are made of carbon as well. I do, however, like the smaller brake levers compared to the gigantic DA levers. All in all, the gruppo is a nice change and yes, it is different. If I had to choose between the two, however, I'd think the DA has a slight edge due to the buttery shifts and much better FD.

Once the DA 7900 gets released, I think I may end up selling the Red ASSUMING that getting rid of the FD trim will make it all better. SRAM got rid of the FD Trim in Force and Rival and it got people mad, thus bringing the trim option to the Red. I kinda like the FD trim on the DA, but we will see once the 7900 hits the market.

kwrides

Thanks for the review. Nice job.

Snuffleupagus

Hrm, when you say better front derailleur, what do you mean?

I HATE the way Shimano FDs respond, and that is a primary reason I switched to Campagnolo. Campy FDs have four distinct adjustment points, two on each chainring. Dura Ace/Ultegra/105 never was as crisp as Centaur or Chorus on the FD. The RD performance is identical as far as I'm concerned.

I've got a set of 2008 Red team issue stuff on order, and the FD issue you're talking about is the first I've heard. Please elaborate.

tekhna

I feel the same way about Shimano FDs, but I have to say, after two years on Campy I'm not particularly enchanted with the RD shifting. I can never quite get it tuned right, no matter if I do it myself, or the bevy of mechanics I've had look at it. It's noisy, and while not sluggish in responding, it's a pretty hard shift, sometimes to the point of knocking my cadence off a stroke or two. I may go to SRAM for my next bike.

Edit-The UT cranksets however are fantastic, and I agree with you about the Campy FDs as well. I like how adjustable they are.

JBS103

Someone I know had issues with his Red FD on his Parlee. He attributed the issues he had to worn down chainring pins and ramps (when he went with Red, he kept his FSA crank). Since switching back to his Force FD, he says the problems have disappeared.

I'm not sure if I completely buy his issue, though. He was using one of those (seemingly) flimsy Parlee FD clamps with the braze-on Red FD. The Force FD has a clamp. That's where I think the discrepancy is personally.

YMMV.

Cdy291

The Sram Red FD cage is made from Titanium, while Rival And Force and Aluminum. I have no idea but I could be that you would get better performance not going with the Red FD.

umd

The Ti cage on the Red FD is very flexy. The Parlee clamp is also very flexy. The two combined... lets just say I have shifting issues in front as well. Although, I will say that I just replaced my RD cable and was reminded of just how amazing the rear shifting is.

vic32amg

I hear from many customer and racers that the SRAM red cranks are garbage and flexy. To the point in which many use Rival or Shimano. Also I have a few complain about the outside cage of the FD being too flexy.

umd

Rival cranks were all over the bikes otherwise equipped with Red at the Tour of California. I have the Specialized S-works cranks so I have no firsthand experience with them.

Hocam

I really doubt you can tell the difference between ceramic and steel bearings in your cranks (ie. placebo), but nice review.

kesa101

i have red, and i do like it, but the drivechain is so noisy! it makes me feel slow, like the metal is grinding, even though i can see on the speedometer that i`m going well. it`s annoying, and even though i changed to a DA chain it continues....

as for the crank, no problems.

brakes are fantastic.

shifting? my 105 equipped bike is smoother, and i prefer the feel on that to the red, but red is crisp. all in all pretty good set, but had i paid full price and not the PF groupbuy price i think i might be annoyed at not having gone for DA.....

Fat Boy

I have a mostly Force group on my bike. I haven't noticed flexy cranks, but I'm not particularly in tune to that type of stuff, and I'm not that big.

As far as Front Derailler goes, I use a DA FD with an otherwise Force group and it works great. I had heard that their were issues with the SRAM FD's.

umd

I should have taken a hint when UT_Dude sold me his Red FD because he was going to use DA instead

operator

And then we subject this review to a double blind test instead and realize...

Jose Perez

The way I described it to someone is that they feel "fragile" compared to Shimano. With my Ultegra brifters I felt like I could crank them with a crowbar and they would be fine, the Red shifters on the other hand feel fragile enough that I could break them if I wanted to. I have no doubt that they are strong enough to do their job and I've not heard of a single person having damaged them, just that they "feel" like I could damage them if I wasn't gentle.

neospazzy

In terms of the FD, going from the smaller chainring to the larger one, the DA is noticibly smoother than the Red. The Red, at least on mine, isn't as instant as the DA when going from small to large. Going from large to small, both DA and Red is about the same. That is what I meant be better FD shifting on the DA.

As I have mentioned before, I never tried any of the Campy stuff so I can't compare Red nor the DA to Campy. I am curious, though. Maybe I will build up a third bike on Campy Record and see. Man this is getting expensive!

"Honey, I think we may have to pull the girls out of dance class ..."

felt1

I can't. Feel the same to me.

I'm working on the same problem and found switching from the DA chain too the Forte chain helped. This would do the exact opposite to my old DA system. DA is way better in the noise department.

This is becoming the norm for people that came from DA.
I also found the DA brakes to be so much better I was willing to mix match my bike and add grams for the greater stopping power. I probably could have just switched pads but I sold the brakes before my dumb ass thought of that. O well

markyore

On my new bike I put on Red shifters and RD. Shifting is very positive and crisp but not as smooth as Dura Ace. Also, DA *feels* nicer but thats a personal opinion.

I'm running a DA front derailleur so I can't comment on the Red FD.

Also I'm running a KMC X10sl chain and it isnt overly noisy.

Definately I think the best parts of Red are the shifters and the RD

BTW.....the "click points" mentioned above which llow for threading the derailleur are not a function of the derailleur but the shifters, in general derailleurs are slaves to the shifters, no cage flex id another thing altogether.

BHBiker

I suppose a gruppo as expensive as the RED shouldn't need to borrow DA's FD or so and so...it should be just as good if not better than DA or REcord out of the box without needenig any mixing of parts but it looks like its short to some degree.


Meanwhile I wil stick to DA...or even Record while SRAM perfects their experiment further. cheers!

Cdy291

I say that Sram makes a darn good rear derailure, easier to adjust and all. And there external bearing bottom brackets have less drag than Shimano, but thats about it.

WheresWaldo

The statement above leads me to believe that you are not using a Red Powerdome Cassette. The problem is not really the chain, it is that Powerdome acting like a megaphone to amplify the chain noise.

ultraman6970

Campagnolo record shifters levers arent plasticky as u think. They are carbon but are pretty stiff. Havent used shimano in centuris so i cant compare that much but i bought a bike time ago that had 105 in it and the shifting was ok but not as campagnolo record, u cant compare them but i must say it was ok. A lot better than sora

markyore

Actually, the main reason I went with the DA FD was for cost savings. I had a used DA derailleur and thought what the hell I could save a few bucks by selling the RED FD, no other reason other than maybe the color of the red FD just doesn't do it for me.

As for the later post I do use the powerdome cassette and don't find it too noisy! Although I guess the dome construction could potentially amplify any noise in the drivetrain. I'll switch to a wheel with a DA cassette to see if I notice a defference and report back.

UT_Dude

Haha, I promise, I wasn't out to get you! I just prefer Shimano's front derailleur and cranks. I've never had a problem with my front shifting with that combo (even with the SRAM shifters). The SRAM Brakes, and Rear shifting, however, are nothing short of spectacular!

UT_Dude

Oh... And the DA front derailleur is more sparkly