mocella

Well said - I'm in IT and all we've been hearing about for the past few years is off-shoring all these IT jobs to India and other cheaper sources of labor. Same arguments, different industry.

Like some of the LBS employees/owners here have said - they are trying to offer a better level of service, etc than other shops or that of online ordering, so more power to them - hopefully people in their area realize that and support them.

And Waldo - funny thing - I've also thought many times about Indy for a relocation, just never had the balls to make the move (had the job offer, but the market otherwise was rather soft at the time).

Daily Commute

It's simple, if you need or want the service, go to LBS. If you don't, buy online. Just don't go to LBS for advice, then buy online. That may be legal, but it's dishonest.

I've ridden off-and-on since I was a kid (including commutes), but I became a serious commuter in spring 2003. For the first year of commuting, I found LBS advice well worth the mark-ups. If something is wrong, they can fix it on the spot, rather than mailing it back. If I need a tiny part to make something I bought work (like a cap for cable), they just give it to me. They would check my chain for stretching for free because they knew I would buy the chain. If I had had a problem getting something to work, they would have helped. One time when their credit card machine didn't work, they let me walk out with the product, knowing that I'd be back later to pay.

I just bought tubes and a chain online. But since I'm not buying at an LBS, I had to buy a tool to measure chain-stretch. I also know that if I have a problem, I will have to pay LBS for services they would have otherwise done for free.

Bottom line: LBS is a safety net you pay for.

Murrays

I had one of my favorite bike shops in Iowa City go out of business It occurred to me, what’s worse, loosing a LBS or PerformanceBike? Obviously, I could live without either, but I missed the LBS and I’m sure I couldn’t care less if PerformanceBike went out of business.

This is not to say I buy exclusively from my LBS. For our tandem that we should be getting soon, I’ve bought stuff from 3 local bike shops, Nashbar and eBay.

Next time you’re ordering online, consider the effect on your LBS and what it would be like without them around.

-murray

FXjohn

I waited 3 weeks for my last order from Performance.

Nashbar has been great...more like 3 days.

canili

Very interesting thread, it's left wing vs right wing stuff w/o much middle ground. My dilemma is that the only shop near me (here in the sticks) stopped selling bikes! (apparrel & ski stuff only) Unbeknownst to my wife, I hope to buy a new bike next spring, and want to buy from a shop. My current bike was bought mailorder, and I still don't think my fit is right after 16 years. Now I'll hafta shlep 30-40 min to city for bike(and same for adjustments, problems, etc) Oh well...BTW, I also can't resist closeout specials online, and actually wait for them for things like socks or a new lid. Ride safe.

FXjohn

Yeah I'm surprised how political bike riding is on forums, such as actual namecalling over having a difference of opinion. That said a local shop needs to make it a better reason not to order online, IE not being snobbish, getting people out of the store faster if they need to, outstanding service. The difference in price shouldn't be so astronomical as to make you feel foolish for paying it either. Suffer their small talk and give out good advice. It's hard to compete against the convenience of having a product sitting on your doorstep without having to make a special trip.

zonatandem

Support your local bike shop . . . face to face, usually in stock, no shipping costs.

FXjohn

IF your local shop is any good, not JUST because they're local

Grasschopper

I will agree with the poster that said this is a pretty interesting thread. In my town in the last year we have had 3 bike shops OPEN which give a total of 6 that I know of. Of the 3 that had been here 1 is what I would call a big time bike shop and that is pretty much all they sell. Another has been around just about as long but is also supported by Ice Hockey as they are about the only store (outside of Dicks Sporting Goods) that sells any hockey equipment and does work on that equipment. Most of the PSU team (hockey) buys from them I believe. The last of the original shops is the one I ride out of, used to be pretty big and has shrunken every year. Now they are selling bikes and doing service but they also sell home brewing supplies, billiards supplies and do tailoring. I just bought my new bike from them but in honesty they don't have every thing. No clothes and pretty weak pricing on accessories, most of which have been there quite some time. They know their stuff though and as long as they are in buisness they will do my service and sell me my bikes. I do use performance for apparel and accessories though, with a 20% off cupon here and there and another 10% from being a TP member they are really hard to beat.

Basically I do what I can to support the local guys but I am not paying double to buy from them.

nolageek

I agree. I try to give my LBS a shot first, but sometimes their prices are just too much over online. When I was shopping for saddles I stopped their to check out the Brooks (they're the only ones that sell them in New Orleans) and they wanted $90, where permaco was asking $58. Then, the LBS said it'd be a week to come in and permaco had it on my doorstep in two days. Then again, I've bought other stuff at the LBS. Lots of tubes, tires, pedals, derailers, etc. Stuff I need "right now" or stuff that I want to see in person, or need advice on. But if it's something that I'm not desperate for or if the price difference is glaring, then I have no qualms about ordering off the net.

On the other side of the coin, a different (very popular) LBS that I've stopped using seems to stock nothing but knock-off and Pyramid products. Once I went in saying that I'd like to buy front brakes and wasn't worrying too much about cost, and they kept pushing the $9 Pyramid kit on me. After explaining that I'd like something more reliable, they wouldn't budge, saying they were all the same and that the lee chi was just as good as anything else. I ended up buying them anyway since I needed something. Same story when I wanted to get better brake pads for them (same visit) - they talked me out of upgrading them. "Kool stops really arn't any better than the ones that come with the brakes" I was like damn - for once I'm TRYING to spend money and you won't let me!

cyclwestks

I would deal with my LBS if they could keep a few popular sizes of the popular bikes in stock; I'm sorry, if I'm gonna pay $1k or better for a bike I want to ride it first.

Just recently we made a road trip specifically to buy a bike. Ended up at Performance, where they put me on a trainer to adjust the bike before the test ride, stayed after closing to finish the paperwork, & everything. They carry several different lines & sizes of bikes, & I rode many, before I decided. The gentleman that helped me was an avid roadie himself, who's fulltime job is as a high school math & science teacher, & this was his summer job.

If a LBS fits & "orders" a bike, he ought to be able to give a % off, he's not incurring the costs of letting that bike sit in his inventory for several months. One "irregular" bike shop was selling Trek bikes for 20% over cost, freight, & build. There was a significant savings from all the other shops.

I was under the impression there wasn't much mark up on bikes themselves from the LBS, & service was where the money was at; but now I've read posts that contradict that.

KosCycle

LBS always has better parts and service.

Accessories and Gear - catalog always has a better selection and prices. I always use Nashbar as Performance doesn't seem to get it when it comes to customer service.

jukt

I love my LBS. Sometimes, the owner is away. He has a habit of going for 4,000 mile bike rides.

Sure, I will grab a deal from Performance Bike. My shorts took about a week or so to arrive, but so what. I can get a deal on an odd size during a close out. Great!!

I have spent thousands at my LBS, and I need them. They need me. It is a great relationship.

I don't have a shop, or tools. Cheaper to get it fixed by my LBS. Some things I can fix myself, some, I can't.

Bike2Ride

Hmm.. I haven't ordered much from Nashbar, but I'll agree that they appear to be prompt with shipping.

With Performance, if you don't pay for the 2 day upgrade, they seem to ship their items whenever they feel like it. However, if you join TEAM PERFORMANCE for $20, all your shipping is upgraded to 2 day automatically. You also earn 10% back in what amounts to store credit. I've easily earned back my $20 membership fee.

Outside of the non club members shipping issues, their customer service is outstanding.

Personally, when I order online, I go with performance. There seems to always be a 20% off coupon available, you earn 'points', and as a Team performance member, you get your item in 2 days.

However, if possible I buy from the LBS.

Murrays

That reminds me, last week when I placed an order with Nashbar, there was a box for Promotion Code. I opened another window with Google and typed "Nashbar Promotion Code". After checking a couple links, I entered "W193" in the box and got another 10% off.

A little tip I read about once

-murray

giantmdb

Ok. Here's the scoop on shipping with Performance.

If you select the least expensive shipping option your order will be shipped via US Postal "Parcel Post" which is the lowest priority mailing option and is the last to be sorted. That is why it takes so long.

The best thing to do is join the "Team Performance" club and for $20 per year you automatically get upgraded to 2nd day shipping at a discounted price.

I purchase items from LBS on a limited basis. I recently had the misfortune of aquiring a Wipperman Conex Stainless chain through a LBS for $89.99. The highest price I saw online was $59.00. The lowest was $42.99.

Can a LBS on this thread explaing to all of us why one should pay nearly double for an item? It would be in the best intrest of the shop to purchase the chains at the $42.99 price from the Mail Order house, stick it in the shop with a price of $65.00 and make $20 per sale instead of forcing shoppers to go to mail order.

If you dig deep down in to history you will find that Performance, SuperGo and Nashbar all started as LBS. They saw the opportunity with Mail Order and jumped on it.

I'm not labeling all LBS as bad and price hikers but it seems to be a trend to either not have an item in stock or have it priced at double the cost. My favorite is when I wanted a particular seat and the LBS said they could order it.
1.) It would take a week.
2.) It was $30 more than Mail Order.
3.) I had to pay $10 for the shipping.

That's the wrong answer to give a customer because they can order it from home for less and have it in two days.

Returns is another issue. Try at most, I said most - not all, LBS to return and item that does not meet your satisfaction. Ride a seat a couple of times and try to return it and the shop 9 times out of 10 will not take it back. Performance and Nashbar will take it back and resell it in their returned goods dept at a discount if it meets all their resale specs.

Support your local LBS when possible but don't let them rip you a new one on extreme price hikes and then listen to their stories about their three kids in school, rent, insurance and all the other items that Mail order must pay as well. I want to see a LBS that has a $20K a month UPS / FEDEX bill to pay. How about the cost of the boxes and packaging supplies? Ever thought of those expenses? On average it costs them about $6.00 to ship a box up to 3 lbs. including supplies. They make about $3 - $8 per shipment which pays the wages of the people who work in shipping and receiving.

tbobby

Don't forget the sales tax.

tbobby

NOLAGeek
Thanks for the Permaco tip. They have the best prices on Brooks saddles I've seen. Just ordered one from them.

FXjohn

If performance or Nashbar etc are meeting our needs...why switch?
The people that work there have to pay their bills too, right?

TheDL

Yeah...luckily here in Beaverton, OR we have a brick&mortor Performancebike. They're good about matching their online sales and I haven't had a problem with them not having things in stock at the stores. Now, I haven't ever ordered from them or Nashbar so I comment on that. But I will say I LOVE my lbs (River City Bicycles in Portland, OR *plug - plug*). It's just a good feeling in there...ya know that the men and women in there KNOW their stuff and they're willing to take the time to really help you.

CaroleeB6768

I had an interesting experience just 2 weeks ago with 2 LBS.

After 14 years, I've decided to buy a new bike and get back into it. After some internet research, I head down to my old LBS. I had been a frequent and regular customer there when I first started biking in 86, had bought 2 bikes there, had great service, etc. Knew the guy by name. When I get there, I see that it's been sold. I go in, I see the bulk of the floorspace devoted to mtbs, with road bikes being about 10%.

So after about 10 minutes of browsing, an older guy working here breaks off the in depth conversation he's having with his pals hanging in the store and approaches. I announce that I'm looking to buy a new road bike.

Now, imo, if someone came into my shop and announced they were going to spend four or five hundred dollars minimum (the bike I was looking at was actually 850), I'd give them some attention. This guy gestures to the corner and says "They're over there. Let me know if you need help," and goes back to his friends and his conversation.

Needless to say, I'm out of there and on the road to the next nearest LBS (about a 15 minute drive). I've never been here before, found them on the internet. So I walk in, there's a younger (I'd say 18 but maybe younger) guy behind the counter. I'm thinking this may actually be worse than my last encounter.

He asks me right off what I'm looking for today. So I tell him. He comes onto the floor and proceeds to gauge my interest, the type of bike I need, the price range. Turns out they don't have the bike I want in store, but they'll order it for me. He proceeds to size the bike for me, takes a deposit and places the order. One week to the day, he calls and tells me my bike is in. When I go to pick it up, he put it in my truck for me.

Having been in retail for 11 years, I know how people should be treated in a store, especially with the Internet out there. I am going back to this second LBS this weekend for other accessories and every other bike associated thing from now until they close.

Avalanche325

My last name is Smalley. Does that mean I can have some of your hard earned dollars?

fore0121

I must say as a customer I much prefer this aproach. Contrary to what roadwarrior suggests, I hate being asked "how much do you want to spend". For me, once I hear that question, I feel I'm dealing with a salesperson and not a cyclist. Maybe many really are trying to find your range, but many times it comes across as "where is the starting point for the upsell". Not that it is always the case, it just comes across the wrong way from many salespeople.

f

fore0121

Sorry, I sent without finishing my post. I think there is a place for both LBS and Internet shopping. Many of the blowout deals you find with the net can't be matched, but most of the things I buy there are things I already know about and/or don't require sizing. I would never blindly buy a bike from the internet, the LBS can just do so much for you in terms of sizing/after sales service. There would be no peace of mind, for me at least. Once you buy it you're pretty well stuck with it. If the ride doesn't fit, you're screwed.

f

leadbutt

Over the past two years, I've spent 90% of my 'biking dollars' online...with either Nashbar, Performance, Cambria or E-bay. The other 10% was spent between 3 LBS. When I buy a part, large or small, I research it. I learn what makes it better/worse/indifferent. Much like a person who works for the LBS, I try to learn as much as I can. Not just about the part, but what it's going to take to make it work.

Someone pointed out that you will likely get NO help from the online shops. The one time I needed help, I got blown off (Supergo). I ended up contacting one of the local shops, and even tho I bought my new fork online, Matt ordered and installed my new springs. A month later, I bought a new wheelset from Matt, too.

However, I've got drilled a few times, too. What I've paid for tubes, lube, chains, etc in the LBS has typically been 40-50% higher than online. Does it bother me? No. By the time you add shipping, you're at the same price, IF you just buy one item. Typically, I buy a variety of items at one time, save on shipping and realize I wouldn't have had the time to make two trips to the LBS.

The variety of parts available influences my decisions, too. When I wanted new wheels...good wheels, none of the online shops had what I wanted. However, I got three totally different responses from the LBS's. One wanted to sell me an inexpensive set that had in overstock (@ the same price as Nashbar, BTW), the other immediately said I couldn't get by unless I spent MORE on the BEST they had...and finally Matt sold me a set of Bontragers (that weren't available online) for as fair a price as I could expect. Took a month to get them, but I got em'. So the online shops are not the only ones with backorders.

I don't feel like I'm hurting the country's economy by supporting online shops. The US is becoming a service oriented country anyways through industries far bigger than the bicycle industry. Heck, where does the stuff you buy from the LBS come from?

I've had better luck with Nashbar than I have Performance. Their prices are typically lower and their shipping rates are better. Plus, they usually have more stock. Performance, though, usually has more high-end parts. Both of them, to the best that I can tell, operate on the "power-buying" idea: Buy in bulk and sell for a minimal margin. I've noticed alot of their items are usually certain sizes, certain designs. You're limited in your choices by what they were able to buy at a deal. It doesn't bother me, because if they don't have what I want, I can look somewhere else.

Honestly, my next ride will be built from parts gathered from all-around. I've already mapped it out in my head and on paper. Certain parts will come from the LBS because I feel like I need that support. Others will come from the OBS that has the best deal.

I can sympathize with the LBS employees, young and old. I had a shop that competed with both big chains, other locals and online shops. I learned quickly, people are separated into various groups: ones that want friends/connections in the business for the deals/companionship/comraderie, ones that want the best service/parts/equipment, and the ones that want nothing more than price. I'd be wrong by not adding, all the customers floundered between the three groups I just described. wooooo.....what a crazy mess to keep up with.

Bottom line...I go where the best value is at.