With all the EPO positive results now, how did Lance
07-17-08, 11:28 AM
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07-17-08, 11:39 AM
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Lance's father is Chuck Norris. 'nuff said.
07-17-08, 11:49 AM
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Lance may have use "blood transfusions" Tyler was the first to get busted for it in 2004. Also (although there is no direct connection) Lance or one of his agents (Carmichael) may/did have connections with BALCO. Better racing though chemistry.
07-17-08, 12:03 PM
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Lance was riding with just one ball, the others had a weight and comfort disadvantage
07-17-08, 12:03 PM
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Cynical as I may be at times, I'm still not 100% convinced he doped. However likely from a common sense standpoint, he still managed to pass hundreds of tests under unfavorable circumstances (not like the French would help him cheat), was watched like a hawk during the latter part of his career, and managed to keep his name off every black list that netted untold dozens of other world class riders. At the very least, I'd infer that he doped less than all the guys rolling around at 55%.
For the sake of argument, if he doped, I'd guess his advantage was primarily informational. Lance had enough pull that I'm sure he knew exactly when every test was coming, what they were looking for, and was medically managed accordingly. No mission impossible style sample swaps, bribes, or organization wide conspiracies. There's too much motivation for any no-name insider to gain fortune and fame by outing Lance. There was probably 1 or 2 well connected, third party MD's who specialized in manipulating the sample levels to avoid red flagging.
Wherever the truth lies, no one can really argue that Lance was the best because of the dope as every single one of his rivals has now been caught red handed.
For the sake of argument, if he doped, I'd guess his advantage was primarily informational. Lance had enough pull that I'm sure he knew exactly when every test was coming, what they were looking for, and was medically managed accordingly. No mission impossible style sample swaps, bribes, or organization wide conspiracies. There's too much motivation for any no-name insider to gain fortune and fame by outing Lance. There was probably 1 or 2 well connected, third party MD's who specialized in manipulating the sample levels to avoid red flagging.
Wherever the truth lies, no one can really argue that Lance was the best because of the dope as every single one of his rivals has now been caught red handed.
07-17-08, 12:10 PM
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What about the testing of the old blood samples gathered before EPO tests existed. The testers wanted to see if their new EPO test worked by using samples where they assumed many were juiced. Didn't he "fail" that test? Didn't I read that while undergoing chemo and legitimately taking EPO he was tested and still passed? Also interesting that so many former Posties failed drug tests after joining other teams. They never failed when with Team Lance. It all kinda makes you wonder.
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07-17-08, 12:10 PM
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Oh, there is the condescension again. No insight, but most personality disordered people lack insight into their own dysfunctional thought patterns.
Your little exchanges remind me of a Soltis quote about Bobby Fischer. Mind you, I ain't Soltis in this case. You keep thinking you got me figured out. Like when I play chess, I am thinking 3 plys ahead.
You know you're going to lose. Even when I was ahead I knew I was going to lose."
- Andrew Soltis
Your little exchanges remind me of a Soltis quote about Bobby Fischer. Mind you, I ain't Soltis in this case. You keep thinking you got me figured out. Like when I play chess, I am thinking 3 plys ahead.
You know you're going to lose. Even when I was ahead I knew I was going to lose."
- Andrew Soltis
07-17-08, 12:22 PM
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Ya ever get the feeling that Lance is sitting on his couch with a laptop, skimming the forums, and muttering to himself "You people seriously need to move on...."
07-17-08, 12:26 PM
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One thing that is for certain, the French and the UCI would have wanted nothing more in the world, even more than a Frenchman winning the Tour, than to bring him down for doping, so I'm sure their efforts in trying were far more than what they are doing today with these idiot cyclists that keep getting caught.
07-17-08, 12:29 PM
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This is a good post and thoughts. The whole idea that "everyone" was paid off and kept quiet is BS, because if someone were able to expose him, it would have been HUGE. Being that he is suppose to be kind of a dick (from people I know who have met him on several occasions), you would think someone would have been a rat.
Cynical as I may be at times, I'm still not 100% convinced he doped. However likely from a common sense standpoint, he still managed to pass hundreds of tests under unfavorable circumstances (not like the French would help him cheat), was watched like a hawk during the latter part of his career, and managed to keep his name off every black list that netted untold dozens of other world class riders. At the very least, I'd infer that he doped less than all the guys rolling around at 55%.
For the sake of argument, if he doped, I'd guess his advantage was primarily informational. Lance had enough pull that I'm sure he knew exactly when every test was coming, what they were looking for, and was medically managed accordingly. No mission impossible style sample swaps, bribes, or organization wide conspiracies. There's too much motivation for any no-name insider to gain fortune and fame by outing Lance. There was probably 1 or 2 well connected, third party MD's who specialized in manipulating the sample levels to avoid red flagging.
Wherever the truth lies, no one can really argue that Lance was the best because of the dope as every single one of his rivals has now been caught red handed.
For the sake of argument, if he doped, I'd guess his advantage was primarily informational. Lance had enough pull that I'm sure he knew exactly when every test was coming, what they were looking for, and was medically managed accordingly. No mission impossible style sample swaps, bribes, or organization wide conspiracies. There's too much motivation for any no-name insider to gain fortune and fame by outing Lance. There was probably 1 or 2 well connected, third party MD's who specialized in manipulating the sample levels to avoid red flagging.
Wherever the truth lies, no one can really argue that Lance was the best because of the dope as every single one of his rivals has now been caught red handed.
07-17-08, 12:35 PM
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Oh, there is the condescension again. No insight, but most personality disordered people lack insight into their own dysfunctional thought patterns.
Your little exchanges remind me of a Soltis quote about Bobby Fischer. Mind you, I ain't Soltis in this case. You keep thinking you got me figured out. Like when I play chess, I am thinking 3 plys ahead.
You know you're going to lose. Even when I was ahead I knew I was going to lose."
- Andrew Soltis
Your little exchanges remind me of a Soltis quote about Bobby Fischer. Mind you, I ain't Soltis in this case. You keep thinking you got me figured out. Like when I play chess, I am thinking 3 plys ahead.
You know you're going to lose. Even when I was ahead I knew I was going to lose."
- Andrew Soltis
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07-17-08, 01:32 PM
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07-17-08, 01:43 PM
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Lance won!?! Why no spoiler alert???*
*For those who absolutely need a spoiler alert, because there might still be one person in the world who hasn't caught up with recent TDF news.
*For those who absolutely need a spoiler alert, because there might still be one person in the world who hasn't caught up with recent TDF news.
07-17-08, 02:06 PM
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Out of 150+ people, the only guy in the race not on performance enhancing drugs is also the winner?
We don't need proof Lance was on these things. We just need proof everyone else was and he beat them.
I know it's blasphemous to say such things but he got paid to win as a professional athlete. You guys act like he was out there doing this sh--it for free. There is a lot of money in winning and nothing in losing. He's just like everyone else only smarter.
We don't need proof Lance was on these things. We just need proof everyone else was and he beat them.
I know it's blasphemous to say such things but he got paid to win as a professional athlete. You guys act like he was out there doing this sh--it for free. There is a lot of money in winning and nothing in losing. He's just like everyone else only smarter.
07-17-08, 02:06 PM
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Besides, I do like the rose colored lenses for evening rides when it's bright, but not that bright. Nice road contrast.
07-17-08, 02:39 PM
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This is a good post as well because I agree about the $ issue. Lance with endorsements was raking in about $20 million some of those years he was winning. So yes, the incentive was there. But for the same reason, he had more to lose. Look at Landis' life now.
If Lance got caught with all the Livestrong crap, he would have been the biggest fraud in history of any sport. That and his brush with death makes me think he would be crazy to risk all that, but who knows. I watched every Charlie Rose interview which were great and they talked about this.
If Lance got caught with all the Livestrong crap, he would have been the biggest fraud in history of any sport. That and his brush with death makes me think he would be crazy to risk all that, but who knows. I watched every Charlie Rose interview which were great and they talked about this.
Out of 150+ people, the only guy in the race not on performance enhancing drugs is also the winner?
We don't need proof Lance was on these things. We just need proof everyone else was and he beat them.
I know it's blasphemous to say such things but he got paid to win as a professional athlete. You guys act like he was out there doing this sh--it for free. There is a lot of money in winning and nothing in losing. He's just like everyone else only smarter.
We don't need proof Lance was on these things. We just need proof everyone else was and he beat them.
I know it's blasphemous to say such things but he got paid to win as a professional athlete. You guys act like he was out there doing this sh--it for free. There is a lot of money in winning and nothing in losing. He's just like everyone else only smarter.
07-17-08, 03:49 PM
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The drug tests have been there for years. And as has been mentioned- Lance was a marked man and was the most tested athlete around. He never had a positive test- whilst others were getting caught.
It is up to you to make your own decision as to whether he doped- But Fact is he was never caught if he was.
It is up to you to make your own decision as to whether he doped- But Fact is he was never caught if he was.
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07-17-08, 04:54 PM
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get away with it? I say this because I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt but I am not naive. But being he was so marked, how did he get by without the "red handed" nature of these recent situations?
Testing for EPO especially later in his run was advanced enough but yet he never got caught.
My friend at work and other guys who follow cycling emphatically say without a doubt he doped with nothing other than a "gut feeling". But how did he get around it if that was the case? All that BS that his doctors were "better" makes no sense because science is science and it should have shown up. No? I understand that the % in the blood could be manipulated easily, but why are these guys getting slammed so quickly? Test may have improved a bit, but the only thing I would believe is if people were paid to look the other way because if not they would have slammed him.
Testing for EPO especially later in his run was advanced enough but yet he never got caught.
My friend at work and other guys who follow cycling emphatically say without a doubt he doped with nothing other than a "gut feeling". But how did he get around it if that was the case? All that BS that his doctors were "better" makes no sense because science is science and it should have shown up. No? I understand that the % in the blood could be manipulated easily, but why are these guys getting slammed so quickly? Test may have improved a bit, but the only thing I would believe is if people were paid to look the other way because if not they would have slammed him.
07-17-08, 04:58 PM
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ok so lets say he did dope and so did everyone else. He still won 7 times.
I remember when he was in DSICO they had a special on him. They were saying how his WATTS output and ability to get oxygen to his muscles was off the charts. I am starting to beleive the half alien test lab theory. He was able under test conditions ride harder than anyone else. My understanding is that his training regiment would probably kill most of us mortals.. lol
Doping or not the guy could ride.
I remember when he was in DSICO they had a special on him. They were saying how his WATTS output and ability to get oxygen to his muscles was off the charts. I am starting to beleive the half alien test lab theory. He was able under test conditions ride harder than anyone else. My understanding is that his training regiment would probably kill most of us mortals.. lol
Doping or not the guy could ride.
07-17-08, 05:01 PM
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This is getting VERY old!!! It gives new meaning to, "Beating a dead horse".
After Lance retired, the French decided to make issue of some old blood sample, knowing full well he did not dope. He really is one of the few genetic supermen, who got the full benny if his mental and physical ability from the recovery of cancer.
Lance responded accordingly. "Shut up, or I'll come back and win it again!!!"
It was amazing how quickly they shut their traps.
After Lance retired, the French decided to make issue of some old blood sample, knowing full well he did not dope. He really is one of the few genetic supermen, who got the full benny if his mental and physical ability from the recovery of cancer.
Lance responded accordingly. "Shut up, or I'll come back and win it again!!!"
It was amazing how quickly they shut their traps.
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07-17-08, 05:15 PM
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I think there needs to be better evidence to discredit him. It could be all about genetics...there are such things as gifted athletes...and perhaps Lance Armstrong was just that...and more importantly he trained hard. I would say he is like the Michael Jordan of cycling. Not everyone can be like "Mike" so don't discredit the man for being the best.