patentcad

So today we get pulled over not once, but twice, in Closter, NJ. Why? So the local police can give us the standard tongue lashing about how they're getting complaints of the ride being all over the road etc. Me and the regulars who have frequented the Rocket for 20 years just sit in the back and shake our heads, wondering if the local cops will ever get it. Trying to control a large group of Road Nazis is like preventing weather fronts from coming through. You either put up a road block and start arresting and/or ticketing people (which would result in massive police paperwork and lots of dismissed charges in court later) or forget about it. I suppose the occasional lectures are all they can really do.

Just another part of road cycling that is beyond my control. Next time I'll bring more popcorn.

It's a problem that's not really a problem (not for nothing, but where are the motorists who are slowed from 40mph to 27mph on Sunday morning at 8:45AM going anyway?) for which there's no solution anyway. I do take great comfort in one thing: anything that aggravates the idiot cagers and the local constabulary this much can't be all bad.

At one point, I really had to bite my tongue. The cop says 'What part of SINGLE FILE do you guys fail to comprehend?'. I wanted to reply: 'Dude, look at the shoes here, they have velcro because bike weenies can't TIE THEIR SHOES.' But I figured the cop was agitated enough.

PeddlingPilgrim

it would take more time and money to process than it would bring in to the community. they have more pressing issues, and higher value fines to focus on.

if they start to ticket 2 riders, the other 40 or so?... can just ride away and spread out!

Szczuldo

maybe the cops around here are more lenient but I've taken lanes in front of cops, I've riden 2 abreast and had cops pass me. They haven't complained yet. The one thing I make sure to do when a cop is around is slow down completely at a stop sign.

patentcad

The ride is clearly wrong here, but what the F does THAT mean? Who is 'the ride'? I can only speak for myself, I'm typically on the right just like I am when I ride alone. It's a peloton, you can't control it. Period.

CharlieWoo

+1

Read up on "emergent phenomena".

Johannes

nevermind

merckx89

We thought the same thing for the montrose ride in so cal. Until the cops started setting up stings along the ride with 20-40 cop cars and motorcycles ready to pull over at least a good portion of the group. Issuing two or three tickets a piece, and going after anyone who tried to run, you have to figure that's about 30 cops, which means at least 30 tickets, with tickets at 100 a piece, plus anyone who tried to run, don't even want to think what that would have been. That's 3000 dollars for an hour minimum. They don't have to do it for long before riders wise up. Same thing has started happening at the rose bowl. Both rides are just as big if not bigger than the nyack ride (100-200 people)

TheKillerPenguin

I gotta say, I don't find my way down to the Nyack ride more often because it shrugs off traffic laws so readily. If there's a clear intersection that's one thing, but I recall the group cutting off traffic that had the right of way on plenty of occasions. Bad ambassadorship for the sport, and is why a lot of drivers get pissed off at any cyclist that uses a road.

aham23

this thought crosses my mind from time to time. like on an early morning ride on a open road when a jack***** cager buzzes by within in a foot. how much time would it have cost them to slow down and pass safely. 10 seconds? clearly they were late for church. later.

BillyD

That's cause 98% of those folks are from the city and you have to be ruthless to ride and survive there. Because they're in the country for a little while I wouldn't expect them to change their stripes.

When you're riding your bike in NYC you can't stop for lights . . . you just cant . . . . else you'll be clicking in-and-out of your pedals every 250 feet (1/20 mi.). Bike riding would go the way of the do-do bird -- extinction.

redmist

ain't that the truth. aggressive riding keeps you alive.

DrPete 

Except when it doesn't.

patentcad

Cycling Diplomacy notwithstanding the cagers will want to kill me (and all of you) either way. All of this is beyond my control. That part about the NY City contingent fostering a 'bomb the traffic light' mentality is 100% correct. Half the ride are Speedy Gonzalezes from Manhattan. Kind of like a Velo version of the modern day NY Mets. Lots of Latino flavor.

• This isn't Pasadena. The Nyack Ride is typically 30-80 cyclists (not 100+), and these towns are much smaller. The odds of them mustering the resources to crack down in such a manner are zero point zero zero. But they will do what they will do.

• If they Ban the Nyack Ride, I will make other plans. If they arrest me, they will have to contend with my attorney. God help them. Been there, done that. You'll never get me coppers.

patentcad

Actually, I can't disagree with the Cycling Ambassador business. The worst thing the Nyack idiots do is bomb the traffic lights. The road hogging doesn't seem to be a big issue, the cars get past us 90% of the time. They will stop at red lights with clear traffic issues, and they always stop at the one real major road crossing (Rt. 59) and always respect that light (not to do so would be group suicide).

But this is really like trying to control the weather. Sure, they could ticket a bunch of guys, arrest a couple more, and what would happen? The ride might shrink, or not happen for a couple of weeks, but it would be back. The ride started c. 1975, and it's been running just about every Sunday ever since.

And here's the most remarkable aspect of all this: I've been doing this ride pretty regularly since 1990 or so, and in all that time I think I've only seen half a dozen crashes on a race pace ride that bombs lights and is essentially a pick up road race on an open road with no marshalls. For all the hand wringing about traffic safety, how many incidents with cars and bicycles have I witnessed in that time? Zero point zero zero. None to my knowledge in 20 years or so, I would have heard about it even if I wasn't there.

rog

How wide were you guys riding? 9W going through Closter has easily enough shoulder room to ride 3 abreast.

BTW - I'm nowhere near fast enough to ride with you guys, but I'd love to ride the route some time. Do you guys follow a set course, or does it change pretty regularly?

patentcad

Piermont Road in Closter (where we were lectured) is really a place that you can ride single file, two abreast if you're very tight. The problem on Nyack is that it gets ridden like a peloton, sometimes 3/4 across. The faster it gets, the more it strings out, and it becomes single file. But it only strings into single file at speeds in the 26-30mph range, the bugger flicking speed of 22-25mph creates the problem.

It's not kosher of course, but you must understand that the only marshalls these guys will understand are police officers hassling them. Here's a solution that would work: for 6-8 weeks, send out a patrol car to meet the ride with a bullhorn, and escort the ride through town, enforcing the single file rule. That would work, wouldn't cost a lot of Police resources (we're talking one patrol car for ten minutes on Sunday mornings), and would get the message across to the ride how they should comport themselves on the local road. If you did that every other or third Sunday I think the message would be sent and received.

I'd call the police and suggest this, but it's too logical, I'm sure they'd rather just pull us over and lecture us.

DrPete 

The problem is how stupid/violent motorists are getting. The whole road rage thing is just getting out o control, and motorists don't care how good/experienced a group of cyclists are if they're in the way. Not sure what the answer is, but in recent years it seems smarter and smarter not to provoke motorists if you can avoid it. Dead and right is still dead.

patentcad

All I know is that

• It's beyond my control

• I can't change it by boycotting the Nyack Ride. I'll leave that to KP. He's too friggin fast anyway, we don't need another fast Cat 2 of the Future busting our collective balls

• If I die on the Nyack Ride, I'll die happy

rog

+1. I drive a tractor trailer for a living, and have seen a huge rise in road rage incidents over the last 10 years. Much heavier traffic, for sure, is part of the problem. But people just seem to have much more of a "me first" mindset that will have them making insane moves to get around me, whether I'm in the truck, my personal car, or on my bike. Common courtesy is an endangered species on the road, and people just seem to have forgotten the fact that human life is supposed to mean something to us humans.

</rant>

patentcad

I exercise plenty of deference to motorists on my own. But I can't change a bunch of Cat 3 bike messengers with a Vuelta Fantasy and Zipp 404s. I can only issue my reports here and let the chips fall where they may.

Regardless of all this sturm and drang, the Nyack Ride is Big Fun. You get used to the Kamakaze stoplight antics after 20 years. I watch out for my own Pcad ass at those intersections. I'm not following Mr. Vasquez into any T-bone mobiles, I can assure you of that. I have bridged many a gap on that ride after pausing for safety's sake. Excellent speed work.

I was at the point of the spear today as we hammered past the old tifosi dude with the cowbell in front of my old high school (Northern Valley Regional @ Demarest) @ 31 mph this AM. That was fun.

jgmacg

Church. Any delay puts their eternal salvation at risk. So the stakes are pretty high.

EatMyA**

I hate to break it to you, but you're gonna die anyways.

You shouldn't be so afraid, it lowers your quality of life, and makes the coffe taste bitter.

patentcad

I figure anyone who dials '911' from their Lexus before 9AM on a Sunday because they can only drive 27 mph instead of 40 mph for 2 miles is on their way to their Anger Management Class.

jgmacg

Handmaiden of Satan!

DrPete 

Wow, thanks for the great advice. I's gonna go blow me some traffic lights and taunt some motorists now.