re-cycler

Pcad is my hero today...well put.

re-cycler

Posted it in the other thread, but around here, for extended miles, and AVERAGE speeds:

A+: 22+
A: 20+
B: 17-19
C: 15-17
Below 15 is pure recovery/beginner

We have rolling terrain, intersections, etc. And, yes, these are group speeds accounting for drafting.

FormerBMX'er

Interesting arguement, but pointless really unless we all ride across the same piece of road. Around here nothing is flat or straight for very long. My morning ride is short because well...its before work. It's only about 22miles but the group has averaged 23~24mph on the fastest days. Again, this course is continually rolling with many 90 degree bends.

BF member Steak Taco visited Boston last summer so I hooked him up with a group ride. He described the terrain as "dynamic".

merlinextraligh

There's also the difference between race training rides, and recreational rides. Our team has weekly A and B rides. The local cycling clubs has A, B, and C rides. The Hammers on the Rec A ride would be able to hang at the back of the Team's "B" ride. It's all relative.

foresthill

For my (non-racing) club, we have:

Ride Levels - A=19+, B+=16-18, B=14-16, B-=13-15, C+=12-14, C=10-12, D=<10
Ride Terrain - FF-Fairly Flat, LH=Little Hills, MH=Medium Hills, BH=Big Hills

Tho there's an implicit understanding that a BH ride (i.e. riding Mt. Lemmon, 6000+ ft of elevation gain over 26 miles) at B+ is not going to average 16-18 mph, since that would be superhuman.

NomadVW 

Here's the ride I quoted speeds for:

https://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united...e/638330941916

Around here, this would probably be considered "moderate," maybe even flat. Anyone else that has done this ride could comment. (Tues/Thurs Wakefield ride)

UGASkiDawg

The solution to all this bickering about avg is to post up your (or someones from the groups) motionbased ride profile....then we can all see this 45 mile ride at 25+ mph. Every 5th person I see in our local groups has some sort of Garmin device.

logdrum

A ride is just like a B ride in the Rocky Mountains (4 corner states) + Wyoming + Montana. Until the hills come becasue the A ride doesn't slow down or get winded down. I qualify for the E ride -- wussy who can pass kids on training wheels

patentcad

BF Bickering is its own reward. No solution is required.

STFU about all this 'solution' crap and continue the bickering.

umd

People throw the word "average" around when they really mean "regularly" or "frequently". On rides where we are regularly and frequently hammering at over 30mph, the average is still usually only just a little over 20. Our lunchtime "hammer" ride usually averages 24-25, and a longer (60+ mile) ride with much of the same people and much of the same speeds and a lot more climbing does more like 21.

It's hard to see from the motionbased data though, because mine includes warming up before the ride, crusing back across town after and a climb and a recovery pace...

redfooj

agreed
i think people like to substitute flat pace for entire ride average

for reference, the womens olympics race, flat 80% of the time with net 0 elevation, finished with winner at 22mph

WxGuesser

I had my fastest solo ride so far this last wednesday. 23.6 mph avg for 39.63 miles 1:40:38.. i hit 30+ for about 5 miles continuously .... yes it was all flat and had a tailwind out and headwind back.. then yesterday.. saturday i had one of my crappiest rides.. felt terrible.. only averaged 17.9mph but did 3440ft climbing.. it was a 57 mile ride..

peterot

From my short time on BF it appears as if people are all about labelling themselves based on their 15 to 20 km time trial pace on a flat freshly paved road.

Since I live at the top of a 6km climb (average 6% - accurate, 8-9% BF standards), my average ride speed often gets obliterated by the time I get home. It can be demoralizing.

I prefer the BF method for describing avg speed.

logdrum

All my solo rides will never get above 18 mph average. I start from my house with a road made of river rock. Then I have to go through town and wait at all these lights by the time I can have a tempo going, I have already gone through 7 miles of slow riding, then the hills arrive. To get 18mph average, I have to be pushing 26mph when I am going and not go below 11mph on all the climbs and try to hit 44 mph on the descents. I shoot for 15-16 mph when I am planning the solo rides. However when I ride an organized century in this part of the world I take advantage of the pack and can finish them in over 5 hours.

ken cummings

Our club does it in the opposite sequence. An A ride is flat to rolling, slower 10-14 MPH, and shorter 10-25 miles. On up to a D ride which can have a few 2,000 foot climbs and lesser hills, goes 18-25 MPH, and go over 70-90 miles. Also A class to D class riders are ones whose time up a certain local hill range from over 32 minutes for an A rider to under 19 minutes for a D rider.

obra3

Spot on. Levels will change based on Ride Terrain.

Yeah, no kidding. The P/1/2 race that I was just in averaged 26.04 mph over 60 miles- and that was a fast pace. The only place I could see the 30 mph average for over an hour is in South Dakota or Iowa, riding west to east with a mongo tailwind.

condiment

Location and conditions play such a huge role in A,B,C rides that arguing over it is pointless unless you live in the same locale.

One of the fun things about cycling in Palm Beach/Miami is that if you time your ride right you can have a tailwind the entire trip, as the wind direction tends to change predictably throughout the day. Add to that the freshly paved beach roads with 0 intersections and you get some ridiculously fast ride times.

I've only been cycling 8 months (1200mi) and my solo rides here are C level with a 14 mile city streets circuit from my home to A1A. If anything, the highly criticized speeds in the OP are too low for South Florida.

patentcad

Hey, that's what I said. But umd said it better.

MKahrl

When a recreational bike club has a newsletter filled with A and B pace rides it will have a tough time attracting new members. You really have to shift gears, both mentally and literally, for stronger faster riders to lead slower rides where new riders learn to enjoy riding in bike groups. Slower rides also attract older experienced riders who are a useful resource.

When I first started as a ride leader the BCofPhila ride coordinator told me "C rides are where the interest is. Announce a ride at a C pace to someplace interesting and you'll get the most riders. Stronger riders will show up and sometimes ride ahead and then wait up. In the summer you can schedule 75 mile and longer rides as lots of C riders can ride that pace all day." She was right.

My first ride as a leader I lost two of the flock. One of the older riders told me, "You can't go looking for them. They're going to have to find their own way. Besides, they're women, they'll ask for directions." He was right, they did, and rejoined us at lunch.

RoadToNowhere

Harrisburg Bike Club

Check one of the newsletter archive PDF's. . . all scheduled rides are listed.

Where the advertised pace, description, and no-drop status of a group ride really becomes important is when people from outside the local area join in while visiting the area. This area has a lot of tourist traffic in the summer months. We've had people show up at our start points having only visited our website. It's been cool to have people join us and take them on a "tour" that no tourist map can give them.

We had one guy, a TT racer from Long Island, show up for our B ride (16-17 avg, not a no-drop ride, 35-40 miles with 2500-3000 ft of climbing typically). He let us know the majority of his riding was in traffic, no hills. Our rides are little to no traffic, hills, farmland, etc. He was very strong, and kept the pace perfectly. Would we have dropped him? Not a chance. He was a visitor. Had no idea where we were taking him.

Beth

my58vw

I have been on both ends of the speed spectrum, and am a number cruncher, so here are some real numbers based on groups.

Road riding club, A - D
A and B together, most combined rides average 18 MPH over mixed terrain (maybe 45 - 55 miles with moderate climbing, 2-4k climbing). Note: This is not the "actual speed", which can reach 30+ in pacelines, but does not stay that fast for more than 15% of the ride. No drop, but not enforced, even for mechanical problems.

C group, 30 - 40 miles, 14 - 16 MPH average, may ride as high as 20MPH at times, no drop with sweeper, regroups, average terrain, rolling with some climbing. - this is the ride most casual riders do.

D group, 20 - 25 MPH 10 - 12 MPH average - beginner, recovering, or returning cyclist ride, always includes a starbucks, or the like, no drop.

In socal I have seen crits reach 24 - 25 MPH average in 4/5, which is VERY fast. Unless a club is made up of 1/2 racers then 25MPH is very hard to keep on the open roads with traffic, stops, regroups, etc. I know how many times I used to think oh the average will be 25 MPH, and it was under 21MPH or so...

FatguyRacer

I do the occasional PPTC B ride for a LSD rest/reco ride. The chart is accurate. A PPTC A ride more often than not bring out the local race hammers and it's it can be the same pain fest as the Tue/Thur 'training' rides. The Saturday club ride is a A level ride too. Like tue/thur but 2x as long. The thing with out club rides is they are not a smooth affair. They are more akin to doing brutally hard cruise intervals with rest periods. Precious little tempo riding is done at all on these things.

Bob Ross

The New York Cycle Club uses a semi-obtuse description for their A, B, & C rides that goes something like this (I'm paraphrasing)

A = 18-23+ mph cruising speed, with rotating paceline skills required, usually 40-120 miles distance. Few (if any) breaks, all of hopefully short duration.

B = 16-18 mph cruising speed, paceline skills (though not necessarily rotating) may be required but not always. 30 -80 miles distance. Several breaks; lunch may be an hour or longer.

C = 12-15 mph cruising speed, ability to maintain single file in a group required. 20-50 miles distance, frequent stops.

The rides then get listed with a letter name & a target cruising speed: Eg, A21, B17, C12, etc.

The red herring in all of this is the concept of "cruising speed." This is not the same as average speed; it's not even the same as frequent speed. "Cruising speed" in NYCC parlance refers to the typical speed encountered when riding on flat terrain with no traffic lights, stop signs, or traffic crossing your path. And since the club is based in NYC (duh), one rarely actually achieves "cruising speed" until one gets several miles out of town.

The club likes to use this rule of thumb: Cruising speed = Average Speed + 3 mph. So an A19 ride will probably show you 16mph average on your computer. Maybe. I'm not sure what good that does anyone, but there ya have it.

umd

We don't really "grade" the rides around here. If people ask me about doing a ride (and I get that question frequently since I am on the contact page for a club), I try to guage their fitness and experience or skill through a series of questions and then recommend a ride. The club has an official ride and a quasi-official "B" ride. There is another club in town that caters to the more recreational (read: slower) and the faster guys & racers know what's what. The official club ride is often referred to as "the A ride", and its a good fast paced ride, but there are many people that do that ride that would get dropped like a stone from some of the other rides in town. The ride also has a few regrouping spots and shortcut routes for the slower. Also it's difficult to rate because there are some guys that are really strong on the flats but struggle to keep up on the hills, so cruising speed can be very misleading.

As far as the questions I ask, it varries, but usually I try to ask what kind of riding to do, how far they go, how fast they go, whether they have any experience riding in groups, etc. Anyone that races I don't hesitate to recommend any of the rides. One of the faster-paced rides, I got a call from a woman asking if she thought it would be ok. Now, there are a few women who do this ride but not very many. The women that do it all race or have raced and often even cat-3 level women get dropped. So I told her that, and she said thanks, and that she would find a different ride.

patentcad

Breaks?

The only 'breaks' on the Nyack Ride are for lectures from pissy police officers.