rousseau

I followed a link on another thread to the fit calculator at Competitive Cyclist (Fit Calculator) and found some interesting discrepancies with my own setup.

For BB-Saddle Position the suggestions for my measurements are:

Competitive Fit: 71.2 - 73.2
"Eddy" Fit: 70.4 - 72.4
French Fit: 68.7 - 70.7

My measurement from the center of the bottom bracket spindle to the top of the saddle is 79 cm. I have an inseam of 32.5 inches. The site suggests a tolerance of plus or minus 2cm due to thickness of saddles and cleat heights, etc. Am I completely out of whack, here?
EDIT: My original figures were wrong! For those unable to sleep due to this discrepancy, see post #14!

For Saddle Setback the suggestions are:

Competitive Fit: 5.7 - 6.1
"Eddy" Fit: 6.9 - 7.3
French Fit: 6.4 - 6.8

My setback is 5 cm, but I've got a Fizik Arione, which is a bit longer than the average saddle. How do you account for different sized saddles if the measurement is made from the nose? Actually, this question applies to the Saddle to Handlebar measurement, too.

Most interesting of all, though, were the suggestions for frame size (c-c):

Competitive Fit: 53.9 - 54.4
"Eddy" Fit: 55.1 - 55.6
French Fit: 56.8 - 57.3

My 1980s-vintage Bianchi Campione d'Italia is a 57, but I would put myself under the "Eddy" classification, i.e. halfway between a modern aggressive racing position and a easy-going touring position.

So do I need to lower my saddle? Thing is, I think it feels right the way it is, but am I fooling myself?

Reynolds 

My inseam is 83 cm/32.7", my saddle height is 74.5 cm, setback 7 cm, frame is a 54 but could be also 53 or 55. That works for me. Looking at other cyclists' setups, your saddle seems to be a bit high.

ridethecliche

If it works with no problems, don't fix it.

You probably have a similar extension as you did before, but with a little more drop and spreading the muscle work differently. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

rousseau

That's the thing, though; I've had some occasional hip pain along with sciatica-like pain (I'm guessing) down the back of my left leg. That left leg thing included some lack of power in that leg. It went away last week when I lowered my saddle a bit (it was even higher than 79 cm before!).

My inseam is 32.75 inches. I just took my saddle down from 79 cm to 76 cm, and slid it back horizontally 1 cm, and wow, what a difference. It feels a bit cramped to me after having ridden the way I did for so long, but I can still straighten my leg completely when I position the foot of said leg at the 6 o'clock position. So is this how it's supposed to be? I could get used to it if it means avoiding weird leg pains. It's interesting that according to the measurements I'm still between 4 and 6 cms higher than their standard.

Would anybody be willing to chime in with their inseam measurement and their bb-saddle height, just out of curiosity? Would I be considered at the heigher end of the bb-saddle height index?

Longfemur

I don't think you can go by any of those calculators, no more than you could go with the standard rules of thumb in the past. In fact, I know you can't go by those. They are only useful as very rough guides to ballpark your bike fit. Ultimately, you can only go by how it feels and how it works for you. Those websites are really stretching things by making those kinds of blanket recommendations about imaginary competitors, recreational riders and Merckx fans. I mean come on, some recreational riders or tourists like to be efficient too.

So it's impossible for anyone to say whether you should lower your saddle. Try it and see how it works for you... and take an allen key set along with you so you can make changes (but make those very small changes at a time). Plus, it can also depend what you want to emphasize in your riding, if anything. Anybody can ride a road bike with a neutral fit that is somewhere between the two extremes. Beyond that, it's just a matter of some personal fine tuning.

ridethecliche

The numbers for CC are a guideline. To be honest, you have to have someone who knows what to look for see what you're doing in order to be closer to the optimum range. You can find it yourself, but as you're finding out, it does take a lot of time and effort.

I've been playing with my fit for a while, and I'm planning to get a fit done once I have the funds. In the meantime, I'm probably going to see a doc then a PT for back issues and knee weirdness (no pain, but I can feel it more than my other knee). It's really annoying to have to do these things yourself if you don't quite have an idea of whats acting up and why.

rousseau

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I do indeed understand that these fit calculations are guidelines or starting points rather than hard and fast rules. What's interesting for me is that in three years of cycling I never once put any thought into these "standards," so it's been kind of a revelation to see how much my original setup varied from them.

I'm still not completely sure how I should feel on the bike. My natural inclination is to put the saddle as high as possible so that I can really "stamp down" on my downstroke for maximum power, but I'm also quite certain that this has led to hip, leg and even shoulder discomfort and pain. Having just lowered my saddle today from 79 cm from the center of the bottom bracket to 76 cm, I feel less elongated, and maybe a bit cramped by comparison, but I'm wondering if this is more "normal." If so, I'd be happy to get used to it if it means greater comfort and/or no pain. After all, my inseam is 32.75 inches, and I don't think I'm so unique physiologically that I should be so far out of the mainstream.

I suppose I could go in for a professional fitting, too, but the guy at the LBS who did a weeklong course in fitting is not someone I would pay $5 to for advice on anything to do with road bikes, much less $175 for a fitting.

Reynolds 

I didn't tell him to lower his saddle, I only said that I looked at a few other cyclists' setups and most with a similar inseam have their saddles a bit lower than that. Still the OP may need a different setup, but that could work as a starting point.

ridethecliche

See, my saddle height is a bit low right now because I *think* I get lower back discomfort from it being too high due to hamstring tightness pulling on my lower back muscles. I have an inseam of over 34 inches (5'10) and a saddle to bb of 76 cm. It's normally closer to 78 or 79 but I'm going to keep it lower till I start racing and get my strength back.

You can find a good fit 'guru' from recommendations and such. Shops that have a fit tech who has been doing it for a while, or find an ex-pro who coaches and go to them. Find someone with experience, I think that's key.

Hendley

Me, too. I've brought my saddle back down from 82.5 cm to 81.5 to 82 cm range (inside leg about 36"), for exactly the same reason.

rousseau > if your inside leg really is 32.5 inches (ie 82.55 cm) I don't know how you could possibly ever have had your seat at 79cm from the BB--unless you only have 5 cm cranks . Either you're measuring something wrong or yes, your seat height was seriously out of whack.

76 cm sounds more reasonably, but be careful about making changes as big as 3 cm.

Perhaps you should go back to first principles:

1. Re-measure your inside leg (from the perineum or using the book method) and get an accurate figure.
2. Set seat height by either the Lemond method (low starting point), the heel method (low starting point), or the 109% method (IMO, too high...106% or 107% are better for road riding).
(See here for description of methods: https://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/fitness...ht-right-14608)
3. Adjust in small increments from there.

Note: make sure you measure parrallel to the seat tube, with the edge of the measure at the center of the BB and reading the height from the same edge. Slight variances in angle, reading the opposite side of the tape etc can change the measurement 2cm or more each time, making mm-level adjustments meaningless.

Hendley

I have an Arione, too, and it depends where you position it. The saddle's extra length is in the back, but because the back is usuable, I've brought the saddle position forward about a cm to keep the same maximum rearward position but with extra nose for a more forward position when pushing hard on the flats. Setback is really hard to measure, by the way, so I'd say the cm difference is within standard error ranges...

rousseau

Okay, since we're getting back to first principles, I'd best ask this just to be sure: the length from the middle of the bottom bracket to the top of the saddle is measured along the seat tube, is it not?

I mean, you don't hold a level on your seat and measure at a 0-degree angle from the middle of the bottom bracket to the bottom of the level, right? Or do you?

EDIT: Well, according to the Competitive Cyclist calculator the measurement is taken along the seat tube, so yes, I did indeed have my saddle at 79 cm or even higher with a 32.75-inch inseam. Shrug. It's 76 cm now, and I honestly don't know how I could put it any lower.

pharding

It is all described in this PDF. https://www.competitivecyclist.com/pdf/fit_details.pdf

rousseau

Okay, yet once again I must confess on this board that I'm a complete moron. I mismeasured my inseam. I'm actually 33.75 inches, not 32.75.

The actual BB-Saddle Position suggestions are:

Competitive Fit: 73.4 - 75.4
"Eddy" Fit: 72.6 - 74.6
French Fit: 70.9 - 72.9

Just yesterday I moved it up from 76 to 77, which felt better. I'm still above the standard, but I'm below where I was before. Maybe this will be a never ending thing!

musicociclista

How the measure seat height with the 109% method? Vertical from the bottom of the pedal stroke to a imaginary line from the top of the saddle? Or from the bottom of the pedal stroke along the seat tube to the center top of the seat? Also the article is not clear about applying pressure when measuring inseam, so maybe some people don't apply pressure at all, resulting in a inaccurate measurement.

I'm 5' - 8.75", 32 in inseam (81cm) and I used the Lemmond method with excellent results (72cm saddle height).

OCRider2000

Rousseau, As everyone has said the output of fit calculators should only be used as a rough starting point and they also require very accurate body measurements. Assuming your inseam is in fact 33.75 then my fav calculator puts your seat height at 75.7 cm (33.75 *2.54 *.883 = 75.7. Of course moving your seat fore\aft effects this measurement. Also toe down pedalers will want a higher seat position than those who don't. One good way to determine if your seat is too high is to have a friend follow you while you are pedalling and see if your hips are rocking. There is a perfect seat height for you that will offer maximum power\efficiency. Finding that spot will take a fair amount of experimenting. I know its a huge change but given that you appear to be too high verses too low I might just take your seat to 76 right now and start your experimenting from that height. In order to properly evaluate each change you will need to ride long enough for your body to adjust.

RoboChrist

The 109% method is:

[your inseam] x [1.09] - [crank length]. The number I got was ultimately a very comfortable setting comoared to the CC calculator.