Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 52
  1. #1
    pfn
    pfn is offline
    That's Mr Fred to you
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    My Bikes
    2002 Trek 6700, 2007 Giant TCR C1
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    How fast to expect?

    The day I'm getting my first road bike ('07 TCR C1) is coming closer
    and closer--I'll probably make the final purchase in 2-3 weeks.
    Since this is my first road bike, I have no idea how fast I expect to be
    able to ride.

    I have been riding almost daily on my mountain bike, commuting to and
    from work (10mi/1way) and I'm able to maintain about 20+/-2mph on
    the flats (max speed of about 27-29mph down overpasses). If my
    current setup is: aluminum hardtail, Hutchinson Acrobat 1.35"
    (~34mm) slicks and Shimano pedals/shoes (M515); what should I
    expect to be able to do on the TCR?

    That is, I keep hearing people say that road bikes are way more
    "efficient" and "faster"--how much faster??

    On another note, which pedals should I get? I'm currently leaning
    toward the Ultegra PD-6610's at Jenson for $62 (!!); I'll probably get
    shoes from the LBS. Maybe I should just go Fred and ride the SPDs
    from my mountain bike.

    Also, how bombproof are the Ksyrium Elites? Can I bunnyhop holes
    and speedbumps with impunity? How about off of curbs?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    725
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pfn View Post
    Also, how bombproof are the Ksyrium Elites? Can I bunnyhop holes
    and speedbumps with impunity? How about off of curbs?
    Depending on your weight, you may or may not be able to get away with bunnyhopping.

    Keep in mind that road wheels are NOT meant to withstand any sort of abuse like MTB wheels. You could put the road wheels out of true so much easier than MTB wheels.

  3. #3
    pfn
    pfn is offline
    That's Mr Fred to you
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    My Bikes
    2002 Trek 6700, 2007 Giant TCR C1
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I weigh about 161+/-2lbs

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    725
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you want a road bike, but still want to play rough with it (bunny hopping, curb jumping, etc) you may want to consider a cyclocross bike. I have the Specialized Tricross which is a road bred bike but beefed up to withstand some off-road riding. The CX bike generally has slightly wider wheels/tires, beefier frames, and some other subtle feature changes.

  5. #5
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pfn View Post
    I have been riding almost daily on my mountain bike, commuting to and from work (10mi/1way) and I'm able to maintain about 20+/-2mph on the flats (max speed of about 27-29mph down overpasses). If my current setup is: aluminum hardtail, Hutchinson Acrobat 1.35" (~34mm) slicks and Shimano pedals/shoes (M515); what should I expect to be able to do on the TCR?
    Don't expect to go much faster if you already have narrow slicks on. Also, although I'm not "calling BS" on the speed you are claiming to maintain, let's just say that people tend to have funny ideas of what maintain really means.

    Anyway, I went through this a few years ago, switching from a mountain bike with semi-slick tires to a road bike for commuting and being the data collector that I am, I logged and graphed it. In the plot below you can see the speed jump in August 2005. Note that these are average speeds. I would say that I was "maintaining" much higher speeds...


  6. #6
    Senior Member dunningrb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Farmville, VA
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Scattante R-560
    Posts
    203
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When I switched from a 30-pound hybrid to my first road bike (~18 pounds), I was slower for the first few rides. I had to adjust to the new riding position and gear ratios, and get used to pedaling at a higher cadence. It took about five to ten hours on the bike before I felt comfortable with the geometry, the cadence & gearing, etc. YMMV.

    A road bike is not inherently faster or slower than a mountain bike. But all things being equal, each pedal stroke on a road bike requires less energy than each pedal stroke on a mountain bike. There are several reasons for this: weight, tires, aerodynamics, body position, etc. After you've adjusted to the road bike, you should find that you can maintain the same open-road, flat-ground speeds as on the mountain bike, but with less effort.

    I think the Ultegra PD-6610s, or something similar, will be fine. I'll let someone else address your wheel questions. I always stick to smooth pavement.

  7. #7
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    A road bike is not inherently faster or slower than a mountain bike. But all things being equal, each pedal stroke on a road bike requires less energy than each pedal stroke on a mountain bike. There are several reasons for this: weight, tires, aerodynamics, body position, etc. After you've adjusted to the road bike, you should find that you can maintain the same open-road, flat-ground speeds as on the mountain bike, but with less effort.
    I disagree, for all the reasons that you stated. For the same level of effort, a road bike will be faster than a mountain bike. The closer you set up your mountain bike like a road bike, the less the difference will be. Also, the flatter the ride is, the less the difference well be.

  8. #8
    Senior Member MONGO!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    4,279
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ksyrium Elite's are pretty bomb proof but you DO NOT want to be bunny hopping anything bigger than a pot hole.

  9. #9
    Senior Member dunningrb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Farmville, VA
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Scattante R-560
    Posts
    203
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    I disagree, for all the reasons that you stated. For the same level of effort, a road bike will be faster than a mountain bike. The closer you set up your mountain bike like a road bike, the less the difference will be. Also, the flatter the ride is, the less the difference well be.
    I don't understand why you're disagreeing with me. I think we agree that the speed you achieve on a bicycle depends on your effort level, the attributes of the bicycle, and the conditions of your ride (hills, wind, etc). But since effort level is not an attribute of the bicycle, it doesn't make sense to say that one type of bicycle is inherently faster than another type. If road bikes are inherently faster than mountain bikes, then in a race between a road bike and a mountain bike, the road bike always wins, regardless of who is riding the bikes. We know that doesn't happen.

  10. #10
    Senior Member newsun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    oakland, ca
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    I don't understand why you're disagreeing with me. I think we agree that the speed you achieve on a bicycle depends on your effort level, the attributes of the bicycle, and the conditions of your ride (hills, wind, etc). But since effort level is not an attribute of the bicycle, it doesn't make sense to say that one type of bicycle is inherently faster than another type. If road bikes are inherently faster than mountain bikes, then in a race between a road bike and a mountain bike, the road bike always wins, regardless of who is riding the bikes. We know that doesn't happen.
    I think you are missing the point UMD is making. If a road bike as a higher coefficient to speed vs the mountain bike yielding a higher speed with the same input, then it is inherently faster. So if two riders race and one is on mtn bike and one is on a road bike and they both put the same wattage or power to the pedal with the same gear ratio, then the road bike will win due to it's efficiency.

    I honestly don't know if this is the case. And when racing you have different motors and different bikes often, although usually road vs road, mtn vs mtn. I think there is a reason for this.

    All other things aside, same gearing, same power: 26" wheels vs 700c or 27" wheels and the larger diameter wheel will top out at a higher speed due to more circumference rolling per hub rotation. It's simple math there.

  11. #11
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    I don't understand why you're disagreeing with me. I think we agree that the speed you achieve on a bicycle depends on your effort level, the attributes of the bicycle, and the conditions of your ride (hills, wind, etc). But since effort level is not an attribute of the bicycle, it doesn't make sense to say that one type of bicycle is inherently faster than another type. If road bikes are inherently faster than mountain bikes, then in a race between a road bike and a mountain bike, the road bike always wins, regardless of who is riding the bikes. We know that doesn't happen.
    If you coasted down a hill on both a road bike and a mountain bike, the road bike would go faster. The road bike is inherently faster because it takes less effort to go the same speed, and given someone's maximum effort, will go a lot faster than the mountain bike. If that isn't inherently faster, then I don't know what is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
    Main Entry: in·her·ent
    Pronunciation: \-ənt\
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Latin inhaerent-, inhaerens, present participle of inhaerēre
    Date: 1581
    : involved in the constitution or essential character of something : belonging by nature or habit : intrinsic <risks inherent in the venture>
    — in·her·ent·ly adverb
    It is the essential character of a road bike that it has less rolling resistance and is more aerodynamic, and these are attributes that are intrinsic to improved speed.

    But again, if you set the mountain bike up like a road bike, with narrow slicks and a low position, the differences will be less pronounced...

  12. #12
    **** that mattm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CALI
    Posts
    10,989
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i'm gonna say +1 mph, maybe 2

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    1. Ride the TCR and you will find out what your capable of. It is useless to ask that sort of question due to so many variables.

    2. SPD-SL's are great and at $62 it is a a bargain.

    3. Not sure if the ELITES are bombproof but the SL's are tougher. As for bunny hopping speed bumps and etc..I personally would not; however, it is your bike do with it as you please.

  14. #14
    Senior Member dunningrb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Farmville, VA
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Scattante R-560
    Posts
    203
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by newsun View Post
    I think you are missing the point UMD is making. If a road bike as a higher coefficient to speed vs the mountain bike yielding a higher speed with the same input, then it is inherently faster. So if two riders race and one is on mtn bike and one is on a road bike and they both put the same wattage or power to the pedal with the same gear ratio, then the road bike will win due to it's efficiency.

    I honestly don't know if this is the case. And when racing you have different motors and different bikes often, although usually road vs road, mtn vs mtn. I think there is a reason for this.

    All other things aside, same gearing, same power: 26" wheels vs 700c or 27" wheels and the larger diameter wheel will top out at a higher speed due to more circumference rolling per hub rotation. It's simple math there.
    I don't think I'm missing umd's point. I don't know what "coefficient to speed" means.

    Inherently means "existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: an inherent distrust of strangers." To say a road bike is inherently faster than a mountain bike is to say that a road bike possesses the permanent, inseparable attribute of being faster than a mountain bike. Thus, no mountain bike will ever move faster than any road bike. That's obviously isn't true.

    The speed you achieve on a bicycle depends in part on your effort level. We all agree on this. But effort level is not an attribute of a bicycle; it's an attribute of the person riding the bicycle. Thus, a road bike is not inherently faster than a mountain bike. The mere fact that we make reference to effort level to explain how fast each bike can move proves my point.

    Honestly, I don't understand how we can argue about this. This isn't about simple math; it's about the definition of inherently.

  15. #15
    Senior Member dunningrb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Farmville, VA
    My Bikes
    Trek 5200, Scattante R-560
    Posts
    203
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    If you coasted down a hill on both a road bike and a mountain bike, the road bike would go faster. The road bike is inherently faster because it takes less effort to go the same speed, and given someone's maximum effort, will go a lot faster than the mountain bike. If that isn't inherently faster, then I don't know what is.



    It is the essential character of a road bike that it has less rolling resistance and is more aerodynamic, and these are attributes that are intrinsic to improved speed.

    But again, if you set the mountain bike up like a road bike, with narrow slicks and a low position, the differences will be less pronounced...
    But "effort" is not an attribute of the bicycle. Let's just disagree and move on.

  16. #16
    umd
    umd is offline
    Banned umd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    My Bikes
    Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT
    Posts
    28,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    Inherently means "existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: an inherent distrust of strangers." To say a road bike is inherently faster than a mountain bike is to say that a road bike possesses the permanent, inseparable attribute of being faster than a mountain bike. Thus, no mountain bike will ever move faster than any road bike. That's obviously isn't true.
    That is a flawed conclusion. A Porsche (any model) is an inherently faster car than a Ford Fiesta but that doesn't mean that it is not possible to drive one slowly. I don't think the problem is in our definition of inherent, I think it is in our interpretation of faster. The fastest a road bike can go is faster than a mountain bike can go, all else being equal (i.e. same rider), and in conditions that favor a road bike (i.e. on a road).

  17. #17
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    29,459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bunny hopping an obstacle is much easier on your wheels than slamming into it.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    825
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i have an old mtb and it is heavy, probably 35-40lbs, and i adverage say 13-15mph on the way to school. my road bike is ~20lbs and my adverage is ~18mph on the same road. i find that i can get to school, work, ect alot faster and the ride isn't that much harsher.
    real cyclist can bunny hop potholes on a recumbent.

  19. #19
    Halocon
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    My Bikes
    Orbea Onix (105)
    Posts
    308
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pfn View Post

    Also, how bombproof are the Ksyrium Elites? Can I bunnyhop holes
    and speedbumps with impunity? How about off of curbs?
    WHY would you do that on a road bike?

  20. #20
    pfn
    pfn is offline
    That's Mr Fred to you
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    My Bikes
    2002 Trek 6700, 2007 Giant TCR C1
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by umd View Post
    Don't expect to go much faster if you already have narrow slicks on. Also, although I'm not "calling BS" on the speed you are claiming to maintain, let's just say that people tend to have funny ideas of what maintain really means.
    Thanks for the graph. By definition of maintain: I mean the speed I am able to cruise at comfortably; I typically will cruise in the 44-15 which equates to a speed of about 20-22mph. My average speed commuting is far lower, about 15.5-18mph; "maintaining" does not factor in stoplights and stopsigns.

    Quote Originally Posted by halocon View Post
    WHY would you do that on a road bike?
    Why not? If I'm riding off of a curb (think out of an apartment, or from a parking lot somewhere), or if there are obstacles in my path. I'd much rather hop than just plod. If the wheels or frame can't handle it, I won't do it; if they can, I will.

  21. #21
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    29,459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by halocon View Post
    WHY would you do that on a road bike?
    Because you might rather hop over it than slam into it?
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  22. #22
    pfn
    pfn is offline
    That's Mr Fred to you
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    My Bikes
    2002 Trek 6700, 2007 Giant TCR C1
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    I don't understand why you're disagreeing with me. I think we agree that the speed you achieve on a bicycle depends on your effort level, the attributes of the bicycle, and the conditions of your ride (hills, wind, etc). But since effort level is not an attribute of the bicycle, it doesn't make sense to say that one type of bicycle is inherently faster than another type. If road bikes are inherently faster than mountain bikes, then in a race between a road bike and a mountain bike, the road bike always wins, regardless of who is riding the bikes. We know that doesn't happen.
    Lets continue the car analogy: Lets say we have a BMW V12 and can drop it into any car body of our choice. One choice being a McLaren F1, and the other being a Datsun 510. Would you say the F1 is inherently faster than the 510, engine notwithstanding? Now lets toss in the engine (the aforementioned V12), will the F1 be faster than the 510? (Ignore the fact that one could tub the 510 and put on wheelie bars...). It is a trait of the car that one is faster than the other, the same is true of road vs mountain bikes.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    4,923
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    Honestly, I don't understand how we can argue about this. This isn't about simple math; it's about the definition of inherently.
    When people talk about a road bike being inherently faster they are really talking about efficiency, i.e. for the same level of input the road bike will be faster. It's just shorthand to refer to a road bike as being faster as most everyone assumes that the comparison is made with all else (rider, effort, riding terrain etc.) being equal.

  24. #24
    dia por dia El Pelon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    My Bikes
    hand built fixie, Lightspeed Sienna D/A
    Posts
    300
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just threw up in my own mouth from boredom. I want my seven minutes back. This thread was useless without insults.
    Dia por dia.

  25. #25
    Go as fast as you can travkat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Marcos
    My Bikes
    Ritte Bosberg with SRAM Red and Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL's
    Posts
    733
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dunningrb View Post
    I don't think I'm missing umd's point. I don't know what "coefficient to speed" means.

    Inherently means "existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: an inherent distrust of strangers." To say a road bike is inherently faster than a mountain bike is to say that a road bike possesses the permanent, inseparable attribute of being faster than a mountain bike. Thus, no mountain bike will ever move faster than any road bike. That's obviously isn't true.

    The speed you achieve on a bicycle depends in part on your effort level. We all agree on this. But effort level is not an attribute of a bicycle; it's an attribute of the person riding the bicycle. Thus, a road bike is not inherently faster than a mountain bike. The mere fact that we make reference to effort level to explain how fast each bike can move proves my point.

    Honestly, I don't understand how we can argue about this. This isn't about simple math; it's about the definition of inherently.
    The definition of inherently is true, however if you were to take a MTB and a Road bike and put them in a wind tunnel to completely remove the rider's motor and effort out of the equation you will find that the road bike will always be more aerodynamic and thusly "inherently" faster. I don't think that anyone is arguing that a MTB is incapable of going faster than a Road bike. We have all seen fast MTBs moving down the road with strong riders. At the end of the day on pavement given the same rider with the same wattage the road bike will go faster or at least the same speed with less work.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •