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Concerning Events Today.

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Concerning Events Today.

Old 09-24-08, 11:14 AM
  #251  
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I think the racers bring some of the real experience into the Road Cycling section. Besides, most of the time, we're not racing, we're just riding our bikes like Freds, only we have Power Meters and our legs are sore all the time. What would you do without us?
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Old 09-24-08, 11:15 AM
  #252  
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Now I get it, miamijim was the "bad cop," so that now when LowCel comes back acting conciliatory, we all say "yay!"

Originally Posted by LowCel
How about something like:

Road cycing threads are to be road cycling related. If the threads get too far off topic they may be moved to a more fitting forum. There will be a redirect posted and the original poster will be notified explaining why the thread was moved.

Please treat others as you would like to be treated. Name calling or posts showing disrespect will not be permitted and may cause your post to be removed and if excessive may result in pm's, warnings, or infractions which could lead to a temporary or permanent ban.

Please keep threads on topic. It isn't fair to the original poster to throw their thread so far off topic that it has to be moved.

If you have a question about moderation or just feel like bashing me please do so via pm. If myself or another mod can't help you please pm an admin about the problem. We are here to help and hope to create a fun, relaxing atmosphere for everyone here including ourselves.

We still encourage everyone here to joke around, cut up, give each other a hard time etc, etc. However, if it starts getting too bad please try to understand and respect our decisions if we need to edit or delete a post or thread in extreme circumstances. Just because we need to "censor" your post or send you a pm doesn't mean that we have a problem with you, it just means that in this instance things went a little too far.

Basicly, lets try to make this a better place for everyone.
LowCel, this is, obviously, much more diplomatically worded, and I appreciate your final paragraph, but I'll be honest that I just don't agree with the intent of the second paragraph. I think disrespect is just fine, lots of posts don't deserve respect. One of the best aspects of this forum is the straight-shooting, call-a-spade-a-spade response to BS. Name calling is generally OK by me, too (as is profanity, for that matter), both are a means of adding emphasis. I think the main problem is that even in 2008, many people haven't picked up on the fact that in real life, many of these comments would be accompanied by body language that pulls the sting - but that's just a fact of online life and people need to get over it.

In a similar vein, I think the objective of moderating threads to keep them on-topic is simply misguided. If all I want is basic factual information, we can shut down the forum today and just use the search function. What keeps me coming back is the conversations. Oddly enough, they usually have a way of circling back to something bike-related anyway.

Finally, I would even go so far as to say that your final line about "making it a better place for everyone" carries the seeds of the decline of RC. I believe that it is OK if not every forum is a good place for every person. That's the great thing about the interweb - hyper-specialization means that there is a community for everyone out there. BF is a big place, the people who complain about the abrasiveness of RC can probably find a forum where the existing culture is more to their taste. We don't have to be network television, reaching out to the widest possible audience.

Again, I do believe that there are limits and that moderators should step in to squash racist comments, sexual harassment, blatant spam and the like, but only in the most extreme cases. He who moderates least, moderates best.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:16 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by forrest_m
we can shut down the forum today and just use the search function
Clearly you haven't tried using the search function.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:16 AM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by bdcheung
Funny, but not very productive given Tom's efforts in creating this thread and keeping it open.
Well, it's meant to be more than just funny.

Consider that we have an entire thread devoted to the public shaming/outing of individuals who are banned(btw,what is a sockpuppet?), but the forum members are not privy to any info about the moderators. What they do is in secret, what they say is in secret, and somehow I suspect that jim's little revelation was more him blurting out something that mods have said/felt/thought all along; they just weren't supposed to say it to the "kids". Of course the mods will say nay, but saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Actions make it true. Transparency makes it true.

At the very least the paying members should have some participation in the oversight of this forum if that is what they want. And the mods should be appointed/elected by and accountable to the paying members.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:18 AM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by skinny
Well, it's meant to be more than just funny.

Consider that we have an entire thread devoted to the public shaming/outing of individuals who are banned(btw,what is a sockpuppet?), but the forum members are not privy to any info about the moderators. What they do is in secret, what they say is in secret, and somehow I suspect that jim's little revelation was more him blurting out something that mods have said/felt/thought all along; they just weren't supposed to say it to the "kids". Of course the mods will say nay, but saying something over and over doesn't make it true. Actions make it true. Transparency makes it true.

At the very least the paying members should have some participation in the oversight of this forum if that is what they want. And the mods should be appointed/elected by the paying members.
^^ that was productive. I agree that there needs to be better mod-member communication. I don't think that patronizing moderators with child-parent analogy jokes is a step in the right direction, though. Thanks for clarifying your other post.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:19 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by bdcheung
^^ that was productive. I agree that there needs to be better mod-member communication. I don't think that patronizing moderators with child-parent analogy jokes is a step in the right direction, though. Thanks for clarifying your other post.
Can I at least get a letter grade?
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Old 09-24-08, 11:20 AM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by skinny
Can I at least get a letter grade?
No letter grades. To demeaning to the dumb kids, bad for their self-esteem and all. You get a smiley face.

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Old 09-24-08, 11:21 AM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by bdcheung
No letter grades. To demeaning to the dumb kids, bad for their self-esteem and all. You get a smiley face.

Well, I'm working on my gpa so I can get into a good adult forum, but I'll take the smiley face.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:22 AM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by bdcheung
Clearly you haven't tried using the search function.
Your disrespectful response to my post hurt my feelings.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:26 AM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by halfspeed
this is abosolutely correct. Noobs aren't welcome if they can't be bothered to figure out what the forum is and perform a basic search before starting yet another waving thread.

I like that the road forum has a low tolerance for whining. The forum becomes less enjoyable if it's made safe for the thin-skinned.
+1
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Old 09-24-08, 11:30 AM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by skinny
Well, it's meant to be more than just funny.

Consider that we have an entire thread devoted to the public shaming/outing of individuals who are banned(btw,what is a sockpuppet?)
Just FYI. That thread was borne from members frequently asking why someone was banned and asking for details starting threads demanding the reasons. Sometimes there were several threads regarding the same member. Although the details aren't really given, the reason and length of time is given. It truly wasn't meant for shame but it seems the questions and new threads asking why have stopped.

It also helps in other ways too.

For example. In the beginning, we were getting complaints regarding "Rick Rolling" - the one that won't go away - and causing one to shut down their computer entirely in order to get rid of it. This was causing issues at work (some people were in the middle of projects and lost what they were doing). With PMs and warnings about Rick Rolling, some continued to do so, and were temporarily banned for it. Now because members see that you can be banned for it, we very rarely get Rick Roll links.


A sockpuppet is another account a banned member starts in order to come back before their ban time is up.
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Originally Posted by making
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 09-24-08 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:30 AM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by forrest_m
Now I get it, miamijim was the "bad cop," so that now when LowCel comes back acting conciliatory, we all say "yay!"
You give us way to much credit. None of us have time to sit here and think up good cop bad cop scenerio's

Originally Posted by forrest_m

I think disrespect is just fine, lots of posts don't deserve respect.
Agreed...Lot's of posts don't deserve respect but the people behind them are due the same amount of respect that you would give a stranger walking down the road. You can disagree with his comments without retaliating to name calling.

Originally Posted by forrest_m

In a similar vein, I think the objective of moderating threads to keep them on-topic is simply misguided. If all I want is basic factual information, we can shut down the forum today and just use the search function. What keeps me coming back is the conversations. Oddly enough, they usually have a way of circling back to something bike-related anyway.
Agreed within reason. If a thread makes a u-turn within the first or second post before the question has been answered then I think a little guidence would be ok. After that let it go where it may...



Originally Posted by forrest_m


Finally, I would even go so far as to say that your final line about "making it a better place for everyone" carries the seeds of the decline of RC.
How did you twist that comment into a negative???
Originally Posted by forrest_m

Again, I do believe that there are limits and that moderators should step in to squash racist comments, sexual harassment, blatant spam and the like, but only in the most extreme cases.
What would be a non extreme case of racism or sexual haraament?
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Old 09-24-08, 11:31 AM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by Dick Rhee
My issue is that the overmoderation and insistence of staying on topic is making the forum stale for those who have been around for a while. While this is the Road Cycling forum, I frequent this place not because it's strictly about all things road, but because it's a community of individuals with the same interest. Off topic posts, rants, and the occasional RyanF help keep this place interesting. I'm happy to keep contributing to constantly rehashed topics (IE: "Thinking of going clipless: Opinions?" or "Will Upgrading my Denali Road Bike with Zipps Make Me Faster?"), it gets old fast when that's all you've got.

I would also like to ask why threads are disappearing for the smallest of reasons. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago where a member was showing off pics of his new bike and a couple of posters were criticizing the fact that it was pink. The OP didn't seem offended, but regardless, the entire thread was deleted. It just seems that mods are becoming a touch sensitive.
A lot can be learned from the off topic rants and how convenient you can learn something else OTHER than what is in the thread.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:33 AM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by garysol1
What would be a non extreme case of racism or sexual haraament?
Someone calls me the "token Asian" of the group ride, or says I'm here to "fill a quota". That's not extreme. And unless the person is a complete stranger, it's probably funny (if not entirely accurate)
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Old 09-24-08, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bdcheung
Someone calls me the "token Asian" of the group ride, or says I'm here to "fill a quota". That's not extreme.
Point taken....I was not even thinking of something like that being considred racism. I was thinking WAY higher up the ladder.....
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Old 09-24-08, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by garysol1
What would be a non extreme case of racism or sexual haraament?
Actions taken between members and mods intervene when it gets out of hands. Mild racism and sexual harassment happens in real life all the time, and certainly not to foster an environment that allows such discrimination on an internet forum, members should take the necessary response against the perpe, mod intervention should be the last straw.

People learn of thing or two when you teach, stop that, those who are racist and discriminate will continue to do so.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
I respectfully disagree. A disturbing number of threads have been moved, locked down, deleted, "cleaned", etc. As a result the threads with new posts is only like 10 deep instead of it's usual 2 pages. To top it off there are no interesting threads left....oh wait maybe that does point to business as usual.
There is nothing interesting? Why are you here everyday?
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Old 09-24-08, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MadeInItaly
There is nothing interesting? Why are you here everyday?
Because he's bored with his 9-5 M-F job and has kids to raise? Or he likes to talk about bike stuff. Could be both and I could be wrong.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
Just FYI. That thread was borne from members frequently asking why someone was banned and asking for details starting threads demanding the reasons. Sometimes there were several threads regarding the same member. Although the details aren't really given, the reason and length of time is given. It truly wasn't meant for shame but it seems the questions and new threads asking why have stopped. It also helps in other ways too. For example. In the beginning, we were getting complaints regarding "Rick Rolling" - the one that won't go away - and causing one to shut down their computer entirely in order to get rid of it. This was causing issues at work (some people were in the middle of projects and lost what they were doing). With PMs and warnings about Rick Rolling, some continued to do so, and were temporarily banned for it. Now because members see that you can be banned for it, we very rarely get Rick Roll links. A sockpuppet is another account a banned member starts in order to come back before their ban time is up.
So..., why aren't actions with the moderators subject to the same transparency? I see an entire new forum, a community council, where red stars can participate in the direction of the forum, and where leadership is transferred to the forum members and moderators are the servants of and accountable to the red stars. I see this.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:43 AM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by nycphotography
Probably because the powers that be never really care what everyone thinks, they just want everyone to think they care what they think. So they ask. Then they pretend to listen. Then they go ahead and do what they intended to do in the first place.
Originally Posted by garysol1
incorrect.....
As this is a community that I would like to see continue, I honestly hope that in this particular instance I am in fact incorrect.

However, in the case of human nature in general, the statement is correct far more often than not.

Last edited by nycphotography; 09-24-08 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:44 AM
  #271  
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I believe gary and lowcel and tom and some others really do care.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:44 AM
  #272  
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None of you have jobs, do you?
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Old 09-24-08, 11:45 AM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by patentcad
None of you have jobs, do you?
Now that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Wait, is that offensive?
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Old 09-24-08, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
None of you have jobs, do you?
I thought you were supposed to be providing us with one.
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Old 09-24-08, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by skinny
I thought you were supposed to be providing us with one.
You think he's going to hire someone who spends his or her entire day posting on bikeforums? His employees have work to do.
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