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Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 01-11-09, 06:08 AM   #1
radial2000
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Reduced spoke count lacing pattern for 32 spoke wheel

My wife has some 650mm 32 spoke rims/hubs that she wants re-laced to fewer spokes so she has a set of ww rims for a climbing holiday we have planned for malaysia and italy. Can someone suggest a lacing pattern to reduce spoke count using these hubs and rims? I'm fortunate to have sean from soul wheels to be able to re-thread them but I sorta gotta do my homework for him.

Thanks.
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Old 01-11-09, 06:15 AM   #2
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Why?
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Old 01-11-09, 06:16 AM   #3
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This doesn't sound like a good idea. Why don't you have the wheels relaced with bladed spokes and use a radial pattern on the front and NDS and 3x DS?
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Old 01-11-09, 06:39 AM   #4
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What Rowan said.
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Old 01-11-09, 07:11 AM   #5
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I have no doubt that it can be done but, honestly, what's the point?

If you eliminated 1/2 of the spokes that would save around 100 grams per wheel. The trade off is a much greater likelihood of popping a spoke while on your holiday. I'm thinking this would be particularly true since you'll be using a rim and hub combination that weren't designed to be used together. I've provided tech support for some big rides and I can tell you that, after flat tires, broken spokes are by far the most common mechanical problem. When you're on vacation, reliability rules.
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Old 01-11-09, 07:51 AM   #6
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Please don't. Relace them with DT Revolutions, radial in front and mixed lacing in the back if it makes you feel any better, but just missing out a few spokes is a deeply misguided idea of how to make a low spoke count wheel.
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Old 01-11-09, 08:24 AM   #7
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The posts above are correct, but technically:

If she's light, you can run 16 radial up front, then get a 24h rim for the rear and lace it to the 32h hub with 16 DS and 8 NDS spokes, like a Fulcrum rear.

Don't do it though...
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Old 01-11-09, 08:55 AM   #8
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In any case, with the holes left open, it'll only take a splash of water of a shower to more than negate any weigh benefit to having less spokes.

If you like handmade wheels, try building a pair with Dura Ace hubs (these are rather lighter than the other Shimano hubs), and tubular rims such as Mavic Reflex. Use 28 spokes in the rear wheel, 2X on the drive side and 3X on the other, and 24 in the front, radial. Use Dt Revolution spokes for all but the drive side, for which use DT Comp. This should make some very light wheels, especially as they will be 650C.
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Old 01-11-09, 10:38 AM   #9
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ok its primarily a weight issue.

wife is 5'2 and 43kg and we are going to do genting highlands which is reputed to be the 5th hardest climb in the world (ive done it and in parts its close to 20%) so every gram counts when it comes to power to weight ratio.

She is on a custom guru (they had to build it for her a different way cos she is so small) and is on a 41 equivalent.

Currently her bike has 650 404's on it but they are tubs and Id prefer if she had clinchers on board for easy running repairs.

If i could buy light 650's in the 1300g range or lighter Id do it but at that rim size theres nothing out there.

Alternative suggestions?
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Old 01-11-09, 10:55 AM   #10
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Velocity makes the Aerohead and Aerohead O/C in 24 hole drillings and 650c, those paired with dura ace or white industries H1 hubs will make an excellent set of reliable climbing wheels.

I'd go 24H radial front and 2x 24H rear for your 95 lb. wife, built by an reputable wheel builder.

Last edited by Hocam; 01-11-09 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 01-11-09, 11:01 AM   #11
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These? They're cheap. I'm not crazy about paired spokes, but for a light rider, these are probably still 30,000 mile wheels.

When considering a custom build, with the small wheel size and ultra low-weight rider, you can really skimp on spokes if you want. 16/20 doesn't sound too crazy.
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Old 01-11-09, 11:44 AM   #12
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$15 24 hole rims on Nashbar + some 24 hole shimano hubs

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...okes%2FNipples
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Old 01-11-09, 12:55 PM   #13
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Rims are not the place to skimp on for a wheel build. Poor quality rims are out of round and require uneven spoke tension to correct.

Cheap hubs however are simply heavier because the freehubs are steel instead of aluminum or Ti.
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Old 01-11-09, 01:14 PM   #14
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Ride the 404's.

(Really)
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Old 01-11-09, 08:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radial2000 View Post
ok its primarily a weight issue.

wife is 5'2 and 43kg and we are going to do genting highlands which is reputed to be the 5th hardest climb in the world (ive done it and in parts its close to 20%) so every gram counts when it comes to power to weight ratio.
Not that I'm following my own advice building a set of 1400g wheels to replace my 1700g set, but consider this math before you make your decision.
Your wife weighs 43000 grams, her bike probably weighs at least another 7500, and she's carrying another 2500+ in water and supplies. The most dramatic suggestion so far (removing half the spokes) will save you 200 grams. 43,000 + 7500 + 2500 = 53,000. 200 grams is a savings of 0.38%

Aside from that, since she's so light I would probably consider removing every other spoke on each side of the front wheel (so you'd basically have a 16 paired spoke wheel) and radially lacing the rest, and every other non-drive side spoke on the rear wheel radially laced with the drive side 2x (24 spoke G3 style). But I'd only do that if I was on an extremely limited budget. If I had any cash to throw at the issue, I'd go with the suggestion quoted below, laced to light hubs with Revolution spokes, maybe Competitions on the drive side rear.

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$15 24 hole rims on Nashbar + some 24 hole shimano hubs

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...okes%2FNipples
Nice find! That's a quality rim too, and at a competitive weight. Not sure about the 650s, but the 700s weigh about 430.
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Old 01-11-09, 08:37 PM   #16
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I thought that lacing a wheel with less spokes than intended decreased its overall stability...?
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Old 01-11-09, 09:52 PM   #17
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great way to stress the remaining spokes and spoke holes
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Old 01-11-09, 09:59 PM   #18
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I thought that lacing a wheel with less spokes than intended decreased its overall stability...?
Correct, but since most stock wheels are made for heavier cyclists (since they will also be strong enough for the lighter rider), lighter riders often end up with overkill strong wheels. The woman in question weighs less than 90 lb, and 32 spoke 650c wheels are probably good for a guy twice her weight. The question is just how much durability will be lost?
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Old 01-11-09, 11:36 PM   #19
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check this-20/24 and inexpensive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Road-Bike-Wh...2%7C240%3A1308

look at the two left two right spoking patent sticker! Wow!
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Old 01-11-09, 11:52 PM   #20
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check this-20/24 and inexpensive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-Road-Bike-Wh...2%7C240%3A1308

look at the two left two right spoking patent sticker! Wow!
I'm pretty sure those weigh about as much as her current 32 spoke wheels. Low spoke count does not guarantee low weight.
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Old 01-12-09, 04:53 AM   #21
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I'm pretty sure those weigh about as much as her current 32 spoke wheels.
Low spoke count does not guarantee low weight.
her current wheels are Zipp 404 tubbies, most Alum. clincher rim wheels will be heavier no matter the spoke count.

here is what he wants.
Quote:
light 650's in the 1300g range
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Old 01-12-09, 08:00 AM   #22
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her current wheels are Zipp 404 tubbies, most Alum. clincher rim wheels will be heavier no matter the spoke count.

here is what he wants.
Point taken. I didn't realize the 32 spoke wheels were also the 404 wheels (I mistook it to mean she had two sets). Still, you linked to a pair of wheels that I believe weighs around 1800g or more (I recall seeing the 700c version advertised at 1900 and change). Those Sun rims you linked to laced with Revolution spokes to American Classic, DT, or White Industries hubs would most likely come out to be mid 1300's.
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Last edited by urbanknight; 01-12-09 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 01-12-09, 10:40 PM   #23
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I didn't realize the 32 spoke wheels were also the 404 wheels
(I mistook it to mean she had two sets).
No, she is riding the 404's and he wanted to re-lace the 32's.

Op- Am Classic Sprint 350 Al. clinchers 650c-555g/755g (1310g set)
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