xfimpg

Hi Everyone,

A bit of an easy question... if drafting does not come into play when climbing hills, why is it important for the pro's to pace the Leader up the hill?
What exactly does pacing provide?

ted ward

Drafting does still come into play a bit. At riders' limits, it can make the difference.

Flatballer

When you're riding 15 mph up 6% grades like the pros are, aero still plays a large role.

When you're riding 7 mph up 6% grades like I am, aero not so important, but pacing still helps. Pacing gives you something to shoot for, a pace that isn't too fast and isn't too slow. This is a HUGE benefit. So much so that a rider's time in the 1 hour record was thrown out because they had a dot projected onto the track in front of them to pace them. When you're hurting, you'll speed up and slow down a lot, which isn't efficient. If you can get paced by a good climber who holds a steady tempo, you'll save a lot of energy and go faster just hanging with them.

xfimpg

Thanks folks, and it makes perfect sense.
So the pacee can actually give directions to the pacer as to how fast or slow to go?
Until the pacee gets their groove back.
Very cool.

jely1990

I have more of a running background than cycling, but it's the same idea. In track races like the 10k there is sometimes a pacer. In fact if you are a fast long distance runner and are good at knowing how fast you're going (I mean lap time), you can get paid a lot to pace professional athletes.

Jakedatc

Well it helps if it's one of your teammates so you've done tons of hills with them

hehe 3:00 time mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Snm...aynext_from=PL

johnny99

I think it's more like peer pressure. You will work harder to not get dropped.

StephenH

I have noticed that riding up the hill on my local run, it makes a BIG difference if there's a tailwind vs a headwind. I can tear right on up with a tailwind. Headwind + uphill is sort of a double whammy. So I imagine any drafting effect at all is very very welcome.

SKYLAB

Arrrg. cycling season is coming around here and this thread reminds me of all the times I get dropped coming up Golden Gate Canyon.

bdcheung

there's also a psychological aspect to it. When a teammate is riding tempo at the front, it's easier to fall into a rhythm.

wfrogge

To keep the pace fast enough to discourage attacks while at the same time keeping a reasonable tempo for your rider.

Bob Ross

Presumably that's a typo? Pros are doing 6% grades at closer to 25mph.

merlinextraligh

I think thats a tad high for any sustained length, both on observation and calculation.

Assuming a total weight of rider and bike of 75kg that works out to 740 watts.


Reality is probably between the 15mph and 25mph number.

SilentShifter

It also helps to calm the rider being paced. Without the pacer, the rider would likely push to hard or too fast and burnout prematurely. If you have someone in front of you keeping a solid and consistent pace, it will put you more at ease and into a sustainable rhythm.

walshconor

+1
not to mention if an attack goes off the front the marked team has more to work with

grolby

Um, no. Not for more than a couple minutes. Even a pro can't sustain 25 mph on a 6% grade. 15 mph on a 6% grade for a 145lb rider takes approximately 400 watts. That's a sustainable pace for some, perhaps many pros, though at 6 W/kg, that'll be beyond FTP probably for all but the strongest. With drafting, a bit faster than that is feasible - say 17 mph. 25 mph would be full-on attack speed up a 6% slope.

Bob Ross

I based that figure on my brief conversation with Tom Danielson's training coach when I met him in Tucson AZ in February of 2007. He told me Tom's training occasionally consists of hill repeats (!) on Mt. Lemmon, a 27 mile climb with an average grade of 6 or 7%. Tom's typical time for these climbs was just around 90 minutes, but coach guy claimed that's when Tom's way under LT and that when he's really pushed it he's gotten it down to 68 minutes.

Flatballer

23.8 MPH is the 68 minute number, at his weight of 128 lbs, with a 14 lb bike (light, but I'm giving him all the help I can), on the hoods, on a 6% grade, is 744 watts, or 12.8 W/kg, for 68 minutes.

Methinks Tom's coach was stretching the numbers just a bit.

Frunkin

Danielson was probably talking about riding up to Palisades, which is about 21 miles up. There's no way he could possibly ride to Summerhaven in 68 minutes.

EDIT: Possibly only up to windy point too. Thats about 15 miles up.

slimjw

Floyd talks in his book about the wattage for his solo breakaway in the 2006 Tour and I don't think he was anywhere close to 744 watts. Same goes for his ascent of Alpe D'Huez. I'm sure the number would be higher if the ride consisted solely of one climb, but still... 25 MPH on 6% for 27 miles sounds crazy!

Not trying to drag this thread into doping land, btw. Just recently read his book and noted the wattage figures in reference to climbing, etc...

powpow

Naterider

Finally a little ink for Floyd.

Busta Quad

Don't forget the motivation factor that rabbits play.

tobycat

Armstrong rode the Alpe ITT (7.9%) at ~15 mph and that was the second fastest ever.

Mt. Lemmon is only 4.5%-5%