KidTruth

Hey BikeForums - quick question.

I've been riding for a couple of years. I've done pacelines and done impromptu "races" for fun (training rides that get competitive.) Unfortunately I'm just not fast enough for Cat 5 in my area - I want to get my sprint up. I've been training for a double century, but I'm about to do that. I have found that I prefer to take 30-40 mile rides instead of 70-100 milers, and I like to be able to sprint during a ride and not pay for it 30 miles later.

Right now I'm pretty slow, unfortunately. How do I condition myself for races - is there anything other than intervals? I want to get my sprint up. Right now I average about 19 mph on a 10 mile ride, 20 mph if I'm really pushing it. I can sprint about 30 mph on flat ground with no wind.

I'd like to be averaging at around 22-25 mph and sprint at.. whatever speed these guys sprint at - I imagine a lot faster than 30 mph. Going long, slow distances obviously isn't getting me there... How should I change up my riding for the summer so in 4-5 months I can hang with the Cat 5 in my area?

Thanks in advance.

Busta Quad

Riding slow makes you slow. Welcome to the junk miles funk.

umd

Doing a double century doesn't have to be slow... I averaged nearly 20mph for my last one.

caloso

It's like a zen koan: to ride fast you must ride fast.

So, do intervals or find a race training ride where there are city limit sign sprints and the like. You need to bury yourself, recover, and launch again.

enjoi07

intervals, yes thats how it feels.

Busta Quad

Solo?

umd

About half was solo. I came across some people I knew and rode with them (more slowly) until one got a flat. Rode by myself again for a while until I came across some BF'ers. Rode with them until I got bored. Ended up riding with two other guys from the halfway/lunch stop.

mkadam68

+1

I rode a series of very hard 10,000+ ft. centuries last year. I climb extremely slowly (just ask umd). It took away from my speed in our local races. I could still finish the races (didn't go OTB), but I didn't have that extra snap at the end and pack surges hurt (that's all there is in cat 4's after all ). I couldn't do both.

To be able to hang with the race, you need to find a fast group to ride/train with. Once you're up to "race speed", you can throw in some intervals--they're better for the finishing sprints, breakaways, pack surges, etc... Find Botto's thread (sticky'd) on wanting to race. It outlines it perfectly.

Hypercreed

I divide my training week for different things but throughout I try to keep a high rpm on the turnover of my legs, I think it also helps to research on how to develop fast twitch muscles for sprint finishes. Even when I ride long distances I break up the monotony by placing an imaginary finish line somewhere up ahead on the road and then picking up the pace, sometimes standing up from the saddle helps also especially on hilly terrain.

https://rushrabbit.wordpress.com

ljrichar

Sounds like you've already answered some of your own questions. You need to find shorter, faster group rides. Ones that will end up dropping you for the first few weeks. Also, don't worry about your sprint just yet. And don't worry about avg speeds. Worry about going very slow to very fast, very quickly. You want to race, not do TT's, right?

waterrockets 

Figure out what your limiters are. Do you really need a sprint right now? Would you lose a Cat 5 race because you didn't have enough snap in the last 50 meters? Or would it be because you didn't have the fitness to bring your sprint into the final 50 meters, or even worse, didn't have the fitness to be in position in the final 50 meters?

Read up on sweet spot training, and do that. If you really have race limiters in intensity, then you should start working 5' VO2Max intervals into your training, and when you get close to race time, shorter anaerobic work capacity intervals (like a 1125211 pyramid or 6x1 intervals, with 5' recovery between all).

I think that actually proves the point. While that's "fast" for a 200 mile ride (congrats, seriously ), it's not "fast" in race terms. My threshold intervals are in the vicinity of 23-25 mph. While that's not enough to get away in a P/1/2 race, it's good, hard training. Endurance riding is important, but it's slow, so it's only one ingredient in the recipe.

botto 

i find that very hard to fathom.

nitropowered

Mix in distance on the weekends and intensity during the week. Be sure to take at least a day off a week, if not two. Recovery is just as important as going out and riding.

KidTruth

Okay I have no idea if I can hang with the Cat 5, I guess I just want to reach a certain level of fitness before I throw my hat in the ring. Good advice guys, looks like it's interval time for me. I've spent a long time training for this century, it'll be nice to mix it up and work on my sprint and top speed instead.

Waterrockets, how long do you hold that speed on your intervals? Just curious.

cedricbosch

For beginners, yes. At higher levels, you're better off doing an easy one-hour recovery ride once a week than taking a day off entirely.

ridethecliche

For the harder Anaerobic intervals and such, racing is the best training. Having an ego to keep pays huge dividends.

pdedes

1. keep a training diary
2. periodize your training
3. build a foundation of base miles
4. allow for recovery during training periods and between training periods
5. work on all of your energy systems, aerobic threshold and power, anaerobic power and speed.
6. train your weaknesses, race your strengths
7. check your ego, don't define yourself by successes or failures racing

edit: and when you're seeing jesus, you've got 3 more minutes

erichkopp

I'll second the advice on riding with people faster than you. Go out knowing you might get dropped, and when you do go out again next week and try to hang on longer. I just started racing and this has definitely been helping me get faster as well as smarter. Sign up for the next Cat 5 race in your area and see how you do.

umd

Thirded... Best training I did last year to get me fast was the hammer rides with p/1/2/3 guys. Hopefully when I upgrade to the 3s I'll be back to killing myself to hang on by a thread in road races.

MONGO!

Racing will improve your fitness more than any kind of training, just sign up and race.

grolby

Hoo boy do you have an exaggerated notion of how fast you have to be to be competitive in Cat 5. Averaging 22 mph solo is not easy to do, probably threshold or somewhat over for me, and I'm a regular Cat 4 (so, still slow, but a bit better than Cat 5). 25 mph? That's VERY fast to ride solo for an extended period of time.

Obviously you need to be faster to do well in races, but you don't need to get crazy-fast. Mostly you need to be able to respond to changes in pace and recover from anaerobic efforts. Only one way to find out your weaknesses - race.

Little Darwin

Change #1 would be to look for a Road Racing related forum in which to ask your Road Racing related questions.

(ducks quickly to avoid the water bottles coming from several directions)