Trev Doyle

After this new report that LA may get banned from the tour it makes me wonder what the majority of BF members think about Lance's guilt or innocence over the years. I have founnd in talking with other racers that most of them believe that he has indeed won the tour by way of drugs, its generally just the sports fans that presume his innocence, not really those who race. Personally I agree. I base this only on instinct and the information I read in and gather in the mags and on the net. I wonder if anyone can list some things that can point a stinky finger towards his guilt or even innocence other than he is a hard working rider who wants it more than most. Off the top of my head I am just spouting off a few things leaning toward his guilt.

1. How many top riders has Lance beaten who have later been caught or admitted to doing drugs. To name a few Ulrich, Basso, Landis, Heras, Hamilton to name a few. And he BEATS these guys!
2. How many teamates of his have tested clean while on Postal or Disco and then later been caught when not under the LA umbrella. Tyler, Roberto, Floyd...
3. His own best friend and his wife testified he doped. Lance said it was out of jealously or to make money. How much money can you make making up a lie about Lance? I doubt he made much, if any.
4. He has had tests come back positive. He says they were ALL tampered. All of them?
5. Had anyone even heard of Contador until he got onto the Disco team ? I read mags alot and watch some races and I had never heard of his like 2 yrs ago. Now that he is riding for Johan he is the best stage racer on the planet. How did they magically replace LA with a virtual nobody. Oh yeah they tried with Vino but he was sloppy.
6. How is it that in a sport ripe with cheats and drugs that the guy who dominates the sport is the only one who is clean. The guy who is the richest and is even sponsored by a huge drug company...Bristol Squibb Meyers. By rights, shouldn't Lance's team be light years ahead of the drug testers?

this is all off the top of my head ...2 yrs ago I could have thought of twice the arguement......Start the flaming I recently survived a crash requiring a discectomy to repair me. I can take it.

Ratfish

Were any of his teammates caught doping during a tour that he won?

Trev Doyle

thats my point.....they were safe while they rode with LA. When they left they didn't have as much control and were more easily caught.

Ratfish

Well if they doped while he was riding with them, then technically Lance cheated since teams win Tours, not individuals.

runway1

I'm for walks in the warm rain, sunsets at the beach, ending world hunger and spreading peace and love for all people (and dogs, too.).

As for Lenny Armstraw, who cares. God bless him.

Ratfish

How do you feel about communism, sir?

zerocool33

I will support Armstrong and Contador any day. It's not like the French or UCI would ever lie or do anything to stop anyone but a Frenchman now would they?

kimconyc

Big races like the TdF are there to make money. Whatever is going to sell more papers, gain more attention, more tourism, more fans, more Cervelos sold (thanks CSC) is what's going to be pushed. If you want to win, you have to have an edge; whether that's genetics and hard work or doping (alongside the rules) is up to the person but it's probably better to do both.

I think everyone should watch the movie "Bigger, Faster, Stronger"; although it's more entertainment, it does shed light on the misunderstanding of doping.

If you actually read how the governing bodies test for doping, it's really a joke. A lot of times, they don't/can't test for the drug itself but hormone levels and such. So even though they can find synthetic chemicals inside the body, as long as one is within the standardized levels of hormones and such, one is technically not cheating.

patentcad

I have observed that for some reason, many bicycle racers (the good ones) have a hard time accepting that anyone could actually be faster than they are without doping. Just sayin'.

That is one of the great advantages of Self Loathing. I harbor no such paranoia. I know the score.

All that being said, did Lance dope? Perhaps. Did they catch him? No. Is that all that really matters? Pretty much.

I_Like_Bike

^^+1

How would anyone else feel if thousands of people believed that your lifes greatest achevement was a fraud.

kimconyc

Spinoff threads:
Does Lebron James dope?
Does Tiger Woods dope?

Nachoman

For.

kimconyc

Some of these guys truly feel that doping is not cheating (again, read about how drug testing works) because their mission is to win and win only.

For example, is sleeping in an oxygen chamber cheating? It pretty much does the same crap as taking EPO (CERA). Most of the public sheeple have no problem with an athlete living in CO or sleeping in an oxygen chamber but they gasp at the thought of injecting a needle into the buttocks.

These pro athletes are different than you and me.

fortega00

Go to any hospital and look for a few people who have been through chemo. Ask them to look in your eyes and choose between chemotherapry or a few hundred migraines. My point is that although doping does give you a lot more to work with, it doesn't stop pain from reaching the body. No matter how strong you are, or think you are, climbing up a mountain on a bicycle can be very painful.

It has been said in numerous studies of Lance Armstrong, that I can remember specifically, "The Science of Lance Armstrong," which aired on Discovery Channel, that his body produces a lot less lactic acid, and that his body is a lot more efficient than most 23 year olds. If you put that together, with the fact that there is no pain that can equal getting chemotherapy and radiation shot through your body, I think there is a very possible chance that the guy can easily beat a lot of guys who do dope (as he did).

I do not discount the FACT that he of course used EPO in his recovery after cancer. Now, I don't think it could possibly last in his system for such long periods of time after. Why do all these other cyclist who were his main competitors keep coming up as dopers? Maybe they just couldn't take losing to this american guy anymore. Maybe they thought he was doing it, so they took it just to try and beat him for once. Same goes for those who were to be his replacement. If they dope, and don't get caught, maybe they can win the tour also.

I know I'll probably get some good ol' bashing from those who will say to stop using the cancer excuse, but it is a fact that it happened. and lastly, like patentcad said, has he been caught? No, and that's what matters.

kwrides

Like a multi-millionaire!

Hammertoe

Neither....

Very suspicious of the French lab, AFLD, and WADA...

Too many inconsistencies over the years...

Too many leaks to the press...

Too many violations of their own rules...

Jay68442

If Lance had only won one tour I would say ok maybe he cheated and got away with it. But he went on to win 7 tours and had every drug testing gunning for him; I have to think no one gets away with it 7 times.

kwrides

What about Bjarne Riis? He never got caught but later admitted he doped for 6 years without getting caught.

gsteinb

That's 6, not 7....try and keep up.

kwrides

lol. you got me

patentcad

There's doping in pro sports. Which has more in common with Big Business where the pay packages of the CEO and top execs are determined by the Board of Directors, the same guys they play golf and sip cocktails with. It's part of the landscape. Try not to get that confused with Morality and Ethics. Save those expectations for politicians and clergymen. Then let me know how that works out for you.

Ames

Rename the damn thing the "Tour Less Lance" and we can not watch it on Versus and they get twice their money back and the stupid French TDF people go to heck and every one is better off for it.

Better yet we could have a competing race in the USA and bankrupt the TDF in a few years.

BTY Happy Easter the real reason to be excited.

TarmacDude

I think maybe the amgen tour in CA might be getting big. They need to add more stages though, and make it more interesting like the TDF.

I am definitely for Lance. The Race will be more interesting and fun to watch with Lance in the TDF.

iab

You make a great role model for your daughter.

kwrides

You guys need to start doing a "no rain" dance. If that weather keeps up, it won't be big for long.

I pray you are right, btw.