Electric_Elvis

Sorry if this thread is in the wrong forum, but it pertains to a set of road wheels I sold on ebay.

I bought these used on ebay in the fall of this past year, I used them for about 200 miles from Nov-Feb, got a PT and decided I wasnt going to use them anymore, so I eventually listed them for sale on ebay.

The auction went fine, the winner only had 1 feedback, but I didnt think anything of it. Sent the wheels out, the morning of the day they were scheduled to arrive the buyer sent me an e-mail asking for the tracking #, as he was eagerly awaiting them. I sent him the tracking #, and didnt hear anything back, which is usually a good thing. The following monday I get an e-mail from the guy saying that one of the wheels is badly out of true, has a flat spot, and according to his mechanic can not be fixed. He tells me that the reason for the delayed response was some family emergency. According to him there was not any damage to the box, and it looks to him like the wheels were involved in a crash.

At this point I am unsure about what to do.

I think I rode the wheels enough to know if there were any problems with them. The circumstances surrounding the timing seem questionable, as I got an e-mail that he is eagerly waiting for them, dont hear from him for several days, then after the weekend he states they are damaged. My pessimistic side is telling me the guy crashed over the weekend, messed up the wheel, and is now trying to get his money back.

But then on the other hand, I think maybe I did miss something. Although, is it possible to ride a wheel for 200 miles and not notice that it has a flat spot that cant be repaired!?!?! Other cyclists saw the wheel on and off my bike, with and without a tire, and nobody ever noticed this.

The guy says he has a video of the wheel on a truing stand showing the problems, but I am not sure that proves anything about the condition the wheel arrived in. I dont doubt that the wheel is damaged now. I looked over ebay/paypal policy regarding this, and it looks like you submit pics/evidence and they decide.

Does anybody have any experience with this kind of situation? Am I out of line by automatically thinking the guy is trying to screw me?

Grasschopper

Not sure what this has to do with Soul wheels but to me it sounds like the guy is trying to screw you. If they were in good condition when they left you and he says the shipping box wasn't damaged then to me it is on him. You can give his money back and have him send the wheels back if the wheels are not in the condition you sent them then you will know he is giving you the shaft. Also don't leave any feedback until you know the outcome of the deal.

JoelS

If the box wasn't damaged and the wheels were fine when they left you, then he crashed on them and wants to return. IMO, too bad for him.

ok_commuter

IMHO if you've ever ridden a bike before, you would notice if you were riding a wheel that is unrepairable and badly out of true.

AEO

was it a wheel box?

might have been badly dropped by the shipping company with no obvious box damage if the rims touch the sides of the box.

Electric_Elvis

Yes, I sent them in 2 seperate wheel box's. This actually sounds like a pretty good explanation of what could have happened.

AEO

if the shipper screwed up, be it USPS, UPS, fedex or dhl, the sender will have to file out the claims and they might ask for pictures.

n00bL35

Yeah dude, not your fault if properly shipped. Make him file a claim.

Grasschopper

Um...ok did I read that title wrong or did a mod change it?

urbanknight

Did you sell the wheels with pics? If so, that's your evidence (not proof, but evidence). I would tell the buyer that they were not in a crash and were working at the time of shipment, and to take it up with the shipping company (which will be useless because they usually have a 24-72 hour time limit).

AEO

usually it is the shipper who has to file claims.

urbanknight

True, but either way, there's usually a short window (for the exact reason that is this thread).

Electric_Elvis

The wheels were sent UPS, looking over their site there doesnt seem to be any time frame to file a claim.

I sold the wheels with pics, but I am not sure they are clear/detailed enough to show the rim did not have any flat spots. Based on the paypal/ebay rules, it looks like things are heavily stacked in the buyers favor. I cant imagine that UPS, or Paypal/Ebay is going to have anybody that will be able to tell the difference between a good wheel and something that is beyond repair, or the fact that somebody could have a wheel for a day, crash and totally ruin it and claim it came that way.

Gambutrol

I've had some bad experiences selling things on ebay. Sold a perfect condition Ksyrium SL rear wheel once (guy got it for a steal at $150) and then he said that it was out of true and dangerous to ride and left negative feedback. I offered a return but he wouldn't cooperate. Boo. eBay is great for buying, not so great for selling. Good luck!

AEO

UPS is notorious for damaging parcels.
I could go on and on about the inner workings of UPS, but I won't.

nitropowered

I had some fella complain to me that a pair of wheels was damaged beyond repair before as well, 3 months after the sale. Lucky for me, it was beyond ebay's statute of limitations. I told him that and also said it was 3 months after the sale and he could have trashed the wheel himself.

There are lots of scammers out there on ebay and paypay/cc companies usually take the side of the buyer first.

But that said, there is still hope. I had another buyer file a dispute with his cc company that his purchase was an unauthorized transaction. Essentially, he bought the item (a laptop), received it, and before the statue of limitations was up for his cc purchase, he disputed it and got his money back. It sucked because paypal took money away from me initially until the case was resolved. I sent paypal all the relevant information and a few weeks later, they sided with me and gave me my money back.

I would ask the buyer to give you the number of the bike shop he took the wheel to and talk to the mechanics or managers there. Be sure to save all your emails with him.

Homebrew01

FYI, for something fairly urgent & time sensitive about Ebay, you should post on their community forums. You have a much bigger audience of EBay specific expertise.

intence

Hopefully you still have the high res pics you took that you used in the auction's listing. UPS is notorious for damaging stuff in transit.

The problem with filing a claim I believe is that you would have to be involved in the process, I believe they only refund to the shipper and then the shipper can refund the receiver.

I would politely tell the seller that you have "before" pics, and see if he can send you an "after" pic of the damage (if any). If the wheels were packed well, there should be no damage due to shipping and even if they were dropped they can usually withstand a few bumps with a 170lb+ rider on them. He's probably having second thoughts and either wants to return them or wants a discount.

Ed in GA

Unfortunately, you may end up being the screwee. I had a similar situation two years ago when I shipped a camera lens. The buyer claimed that the lens was cracked when he opened it. I had no proof that it was not, so rather than go through a lengthy pissing contest, I asked him to ship it back and I refunded his money.

I'm pretty sure that the buyer dropped the lens on a hard surface and broke it.

anyway, I now take time stamped photos of everything I ship just before I pack it and ship it and always ship the same day.

You're probably correct. Your buyer probably go the wheels, rode them, crashed and now wants to recover his money by blaming you.

If PayPal was involved, I'd make the buyer file a claim, state your case along with the exchange of e-mails. PayPal might be on your side in this one.

oilman_15106

Have some news for you the shipper not the buyer must file the claim with UPS. UPS is a total pain in the rear to deal with on claims and I will never ship anything bike related with them ever again.

OP - unless serious $$ is involved tell the buyer to ship them back to you at his expense(unless your listing stated otherwise) and when you get them back refund the $$.

oilman_15106

Sorry for the double post but I also bought an ebay front wheel only that did arrive as my LBS said "that is the most out of true wheel I have seen in 35 years of business". It arrived with 2 stripped spoke nipples. The seller insisted that it was perfect. I sent pictures to Rol and they told me to throw it in the dumpster. I won the paypal claim as the item being misrepresented. I filed the claim 2 days after getting the wheel and did not use it.

Scorer75

I would ask for the number of the mechanic that checked the wheel out, this may cause him to drop the whole thing if it was a scam, especially if he crashed and the mechanic saw the crashed bike.

If the box is not damaged, UPS will not pay.

urbanknight

Good suggestion. I have had people try to scam me before (not on ebay), and patiently asking them questions to show you're researching the issue usually gets them sweating in fear of getting caught. Although tough to prove, it sounds like your buyer is committing fraud.

azdroptop

I always take detailed pictures of stuff I am selling and of the box prior to shipping to protect myself. May be too late now, but for future selling. Seems fishy. Have him send a picture of the wheel. You'll be able to tell if it has been damaged since leaving you.

intence

Some people are just dishonest, and under the new feedback system, you can't leave bad feedback for a pain-in-the-butt buyer.

Unfortunately, PayPal normally sides with the buyer

The previous response was correct, UPS won't do much if the box wasn't damaged. They're not terrible about claims, I had one a few months ago for something non-bike related (I was on the receiving end) and they handled it pretty well.