buzpuck11

Found a 2009 Windsor Knight on Craigslist for 600 or B/O. It is barely used and includes a Cateye computer? This seems like a good deal for a full Ultegra bike. I searched the forums but could not find a lot of info on this bike. Is this a good first bike? Is say $550 a good deal for this bike?

Also, it is a 60cm bike. I am just a hair under 6'1" with a 34.5 - 35 inch inseam depending on how hard I push up while measuring. Would a 60cm bike be too big?

mrvrsick

sced

Your dimensions are my dimensions and all my bikes are 60cm, so it should fit fine. That bike new may have cost $100 less than the current price because they were less when introduced. I've had a Windsor Fens ($700 new) for 2 years and am happy with it. $550 for an essentially new bike with that (higher) specification sounds pretty good.

gettingold

Depends. Do you want a loaded Kia or a stripped down Honda? I'll take the Honda.

stewardmike03

I find this to be sooooo NOT the case! The BD bikes have proven to be rebadged (insert name here). So the difference is in the paint and decals...I cracked my Scott CR1 sl frame and picked up a Cheapo Motobecane Champion SL frame from Bike island. It rides VERY well for an aluminum frame! I was very surprised by the ride quality and build quality. In my opinion there is NOTHING wrong with BD or the brands they sell. I know...I'm a shill...so be it. My old Ferraroli frame will get a new steel fork and soon I'll be on that again...until then I'm rockin' the Moto 'B'. Say what you will.

Diegomayra

This comparison is not accurate at all. Are we talking about the frame here? Or components?
Anyways...

For that price I would say that is a steal. Ride on!

millarj

it's actually a loaded kia, with a Honda engine, transmission, interior, and electrical system. Aside from that, yeah, you're spot on.

Disclaimer: I own a Kia minivan. It is what it is. A minivan. :-(

Cycho

I almost pulled the trigger on this bike from BD but wen't with the Grand Sprint instead. The CF seatstays were the main factor. The FSA CF cranks were a nice bonus. Before deciding, I saw plenty of posts about the Knight and all current owners have been happy with it.

buzpuck11

This bike is a little over 2 hours away, but I think I am going to look at it on Saturday. It seems like a good deal. Now, I have never ridden a road bike before. So other than stand over height (1-2 inches?), how do I know if it is the correct fit or not? Will I just be able to tell by taking a short ride, or are there specific things I should be looking for?

Cycho

Stand over height is the least important aspect of fit. You really won't know until you've put at least 50 miles on the bike. Seat post height, saddle for/aft position, stem length, handle bar width, tob tube length, head tube size, and seat tube angle are all factors. It may be worth it for you to spend another $75-$100, take it to your LBS and have them properly fit you.

urbanknight

OK, how about a Toyota or a Lexus.

stewardmike03

Better...just as you can buy a Cadillac Escalade or spend a ton less and get the GMC Yukon...same factory, same workers, different badges and paint...and more money for one.

Rustyoldbikes

"Full Ultegra" would mean Ultegra components were used for the shifters, the brake calipers, the front and rear gear mechs, the headset, the hubs, the crank, and the bottom bracket. If a bike uses cheaper generic parts for the headset, the brake calipers, the hubs, the bottom bracket, and the crank, it is NOT a "full Ultegra" bike.

Two bike frames can be built on the same assembly line and LOOK identical, but be very different in quality...the same factory builds frames it sells to "Brand A" for $100 each and sells a SIMILAR LOOKING low-grade frame to "Brand W" for $20...the frames look alike...but they are NOT the same quality.

Bikes are like anything else...you get precisely what you pay for. If you pay $600 for a bike, you will get a $600 bike. But, if someone tells you they are selling you a bike worth $1,000 for just $600, they assume you are stupid...don't get played.

brandontw

I still think your way off, i'm pretty sure that those BD bikes have been proven to be killer deals, the frames are good quality frames, and the parts are all name brand and proven good, what more do you want?

If there were tons of cracked or bent BD frame stories floating around i'd be on your side, but everyone says they ride great and hold up awesome.

Perhaps your just trying to justify that you payed 1000$ for a bike you could have got for 600$?

Cycho

The frames made by Kinesis (which builds frames for a variety of bike companies) are made of the same material and workmanship. They don't set up line for the "cheap" 7005 series aluminum frames and another line for the "quality" 7005 series aluminum frames. That would be cost prohibitive and a bad business model. The cost to the reseller (Trek, Felt, Specialized, BD, etc.) is the same. The retail price difference that you and I see is determined by the markup each of those companies places on the cost of the frames (and other components) they buy. So Felt, for instance, will take the same double-butted 7000 series frame, attach Shimano 105/Tiagra components (either mix and match or full), factor in their advertising costs, labor costs and come out with an MSRP to the LBS selling the bike to you. The LBS in turn will do the same but make a significantly lower margin. BD, on the other hand, takes that frame, attaches Shimano Ultegra components, mix and matches lower end stuff* (FSA, Cane Creek, Ritchey, etc) and sells the bike directly to the consumer, cutting out the middle man (the LBS).

Retail 101.

*lower end relative to having the full gruppo.

Rustyoldbikes

Brandon, there is nothing wrong with buying a bike from K-Mart, Wal-Mart, or from BikesDirect. Cheap bikes enable millions of people to ride a bike until they are able to afford a better bike. What is wrong is misleading customers...claiming a bike is "Full Utegra", and then removing the Ultegra brake calipers and substituting low quality generic calipers, removing the Ultegra hubs, removing the Ultegra bottom bracket, removing the Ultegra crank...but calling the bike "Full Utegra".

How do you tell a frame that wholesales for $20 from one that wholesales for $100? Buy a million dollars worth of stress testing equipment. Cut the frames apart. Do tests on the quality of the aluminum used.

GLANCE at two frames made in the same factory and discern the quality of aluminum used, and the temperature at which the brazing was done? Impossible. So, it is easy for a dishonest bike wholesaler to CLAIM that its "cheapo" frames are identical to the high quality frames used on better bikes...because suckers are born every minute.

When Schwinn was a REAL bike company, it invested in millions of dollars in testing equipment. Suppliers would send Schwinn tires, or cranks, or hubs that LOOKED identical. Through expensive testing, Schwinn found that the differences in actual quality where dramatic...one crank was twice as strong as another, a tire from supplier "A" had twice the rolling resistance as an "identical" tire from supplier "B". Companies such as Trek, Cannondale, Specialized, and Giant spend millions of dollars a year testing frames, testing forks, and testing components.

Where is the test lab for "Cheap Bikes Are Us"? YOU are the test lab...if the generic brake calipers fail to work properly in the rain while riding in heavy traffic, you will have an exciting day.

There are two basic rules of capitalism: 1. a customer gets EXACTLY what they pay for....you pay $600 and you get a $600 bike. 2. There are always people dumb enough to think they can buy a $1,200 bike for $600.

sced

Myth. Words/expressions like "bargain", "good/great deal", "comparison shopping", and "sucker" wouldn't exist if otherwise.

KCWolfPck

You mean....there are always people dumb enough to pay $1200 for a $600 bike and a name.

Cycho

Retail is for suckers.

FIXED

KCWolfPck

Ok, I have a Windsor Fens...paid $695 for it. How much would it have cost to build that same bike? Prices were gathered at BikeParts360.com and JensonUSA.com



$150.00 - Frame - Engineered, Precision welded Heat treated aluminum main tubes and rear stays, 2x H2O bosses, replaceable rear derailleur hanger
$80.00 - Fork - Kinesis carbon fiber legs with 1.125 inch steerer tube
$89.99 - Crankset - FSA Aluminum Alloy arms, Triple 50/39/30T Black Finish
$20.00 - Bottom Bracket - Sealed Cartridge Bearing
$30.00 - Pedals - Road Clipless compatible with two bolt/spd sole shoes
$60.00 - Front Derailleur - 2009 Shimano 105 / 5600 for triple 30 speed
$90.00 - Rear Derailleur - 2009 Shimano 105 / 5600 for triple 30 speed
$156.95 - Shifters - 2009 Shimano 105 Integrated STI 10 Speed, (30 total gears, ST5600)
$90.00 - Cassette/Freewheel - 2009 Shimano 105 HG5600 10 Speed Cassette 12-25T
$43.00 - Chain - 2009 Shimano CN5600 HG 10 Speed
$20.00 - Hubs - Formula Aluminum for 10 speed (30 gears total)
$20.00 - Spokes - Stainless Steel, Radial front pattern
$60.00 - Rims - Alex DA22 Aluminum Wheelset with machined brake track
$24.00 - Tires - Michelin Dynamic 700x23 high pressure road tires, presta valve tubes
$67.00 - Brakes - Tektro R530 BlackChrome DualPull aluminum calipers
$NA.00 - Brake Levers - 2009 Shimano 105 (integrated with shifters) ST5600
$18.00 - Headset - Threadless Sealed Ball Bearing Aheadset
$80.00 - Handlebar - Ritchey Comp 6061 Butted Aluminum Biomax Ergo bend
$50.00 - Stem - Ritchey Comp Threadless Aluminum 1.125 steerer, 31.8mm clamp
$5.00 - Tape/Grip - Black cork
$24.00 - Saddle - Racing with color accent panels (Velo Plush)
$35.00 - Seat Post - FSA FR270 Carbon/Aluminum 27.2mm


Just made a lowball estimate on a couple of the generic items. Parts alone add up to over $1200 if bought separately. I bought them all in an assembled bike for less that $700.

What's your theory on that?

sced

So how do you like the Fens?

I bought a Fens 2 years ago as family pool bike that I share with my sons. My youngest had it at college all year, but I started riding it regularly after he brought it home for the summer. While I'm not a fan of the triple crank (prefer a compact) and lumpy welds, it's reasonably light, has been very sturdy and reliable, and has an impressive smooth and comfortable ride. Whenever I see those cliche posts about aluminum and road shock and buzz, I think of the Fens which is actually noticeably smoother with better power transmission than my classic Columbus and Reynolds steel bikes.

Barrettscv 

This went off-topic quickly.

gettingold

I so agree. To the others, ride your loaded Kia's and spread your joy... (or your Hondas which have purportedly been rebadged as Kias ).

KCWolfPck

I like how everyone is ignoring my price breakdown. Even without the "KIA" frame, $700 for all those parts is a damn good deal! Nobody can argue that.

Yaniel

the website tells you which components are ultegra and which aren't. it says the brakes are from tektro, the headset is ritchey. seems pretty honest to me.