jgf310

So, in another thread about climbing, I posted that I tended to do all my climbing out of the saddle. It was suggested that this was something off a newbie mistake, and that I should try to spend more time in the saddle - perhaps at lower gears.

I've been doing exactly that.

I've also read the Climbing Techniques article: https://cycling-fitness.com/page.cfm?pageID=322

My bike is a Specialized Roubaix (carbon) with a triple. I cycle in Connecticut - it's moderately hilly, but it's not the Rockies.

My approach on most hills now, is to stay in the saddle as long as possible - I often go down to the lowest possible gear on my triple to stay seated.

Here are my symptoms:

When climbing in the saddle, what I find is that my muscles burn before I get winded. Once I get to my lowest gear, and I'm burning, I'm done: I can't continue staying seated, so on longer/steeper climbs, I have to get up out of the saddle (which seems to use different muscles) so that I can continue.

When climbing out of the saddle, I generally get winded long before my muscles burn. I can control this a bit by simply going slower, or just getting in a lower gear. I rarely make it to my lowest gear while climbing out of the saddle.

My questions:

What is the significance of muscles burning before getting winded (seated) vs. getting winded before burning (standing)?

Do these symptoms suggest particular training regimes that I might focus on to improve my climbing?

rbart4506

I don't know about anyone else, but I mix it up when I climb...I sit, I stand, I do whatever to get to the top of that hill....

For me it really depends on the grade of the hill and the length...

nycphotography

Your experience is somewhat confusing as it is the opposite of what I'd expect.

Seated, you should be spinning a pretty decent cadence, especially if you're on a triple. This should lead to getting winded more than lactate burn.

Standing, you should be 2-3 gears higher, and working at a lower cadence, which will work out to more lactate burn and less wind.

That is one technique that should be mentioned... make sure you are shifting 2-3 cogs to a harder gear before standing... otherwise you end up effectively sprinting when you stand.

ft_critical

Learn to use your muscles - all of them - before your cardio system.

tntyz

When do you shift? I pick my gear for the hill pretty close to the bottom and then pace myself up the hill.

If I try to stay in the highest gear possible and downshift only as needed while climbing, then I'm toasted.

FormerBMX'er

Sounds to me like you need to improve your Lactate Threshold as well as your Muscle Endurance. Perhaps Hill Repeats and taller gears on the flats are in order?

-FBMX'er

Grumpy McTrumpy

It's not rocket science. It's about fitness. If you are having trouble climbing in the 30x25 then it's really just a matter of training to a higher level of fitness. If there were some magical way to replace the days-weeks-months-years of training necessary then everyone would be doing it.

When I started riding again I had a triple crankset. There were hills that felt too hard in the 30x25. I now take them in 39x21. The difference? Hard training over the years. Pain, suffering, yada yada. But it did make me stronger over time.

broerie

You're thinking way too much about this. Just do what comes naturally to you. When you feel like staying in the saddle, do so. If that becomes too hard, stand on your pedals. There's no such thing as a magical trick that 'll make you climb with ease. Climbing is hard for everyone and always hurts.

Wasn't there some guy who said 'it never gets easier, you just go faster'
There's a lot of truth in those words...

Grumpy McTrumpy

I think LeMond said that quote first.

jgf310

Well, I know I need to get fitter..., but in what way?

If my muscles are burning (prematurely?) while seated in my lowest gear, is that mostly a strength problem, or mostly a cardio problem?

To fix it, should I go to the gym and spin at a high RPM?

Or, should I be thinking about doing some weight training?

UGASkiDawg

To fix it you should ride a lot more hills and hurt a lot more often

ImaPoser

yes.

Grumpy McTrumpy

Ok I'll bite.

My "not knowing anything but what you told me on the internet" read on this is this:

1. When you are out of the saddle you are using your body weight more and subsequently requiring less of a load on your cycling-specific leg muscles. This works because the length of the hills (as you indicated) is not enough to cause you to blow up from the increased energy requirements of climbing while standing. A heartrate monitor should indicate an increase when standing (at least it does for me)

2. Those cycling-specific leg muscles are crying at you when you subject them to the load necessary to climb in a seated position. This is NORMAL. I think we all are familiar with this sensation.

3. The more you do a specific thing, the better your body adapts. If you want to get better at climbing McTuffy's Hill Road: climb McTuffy's Hill Road LOTS. Eventually the pain will subside and then you click up to 30x23 and suffer some more. Then the pain will subside again and you try it in 30x21....etc

4. This will not happen over the course of a week. It may take a LOT of time. Let it take time.

Grumpy McTrumpy

I forgot to add: make sure you are breathing well and deeply. you need a steady supply of new oxygen and carry off the waste gases in order to combat lactic acid.

mkadam68

• What sort of hills are you talking? Short & very steep? Coming from California, it's hard for me to imagine any long climbs in Connecticut (sorry). If they are short & steep, maybe standing is the way to go to best get over them?
• And what do you consider a high RPM?
• And, just out of curiosity, do you have any old injuries to your quadriceps?

The current "standard" is to rely on your cardiovascular system for riding (as opposed to your muscular system) as it can last alot longer--hence the advice to have a high cadence (RPMs). However, there is a certain amount of leg muscle endurance that comes into play, as you're apparently finding out.

In the end, that burning sensation is the acute accumulation of lactate in the leg muscles. To avoid getting it you can do what these gents (gals?) have suggested: make your body more efficient (train on hills more & develop leg strength); or you can make the ride easier (go slower/find easier hills/get easier gears/get a motor). Your choice.

big john

How old are you?
How much do you weigh?
How much cycling experience do you have? These things come into play but to climb well you have to climb a lot. No one can teach you how to climb. They can offer advice and pointers but you are just going to have to grind out some miles and see what works for you.
Like Grumpy said, don't forget to breathe.

George

+1

Hammertoe

Yes to the above...



Also sounds like you are not shifting down soon enough...

Do not wait for your legs to burn before down shifting...

If you do, it is too late...


Once you get lactic acid built up in the legs (burning) when climbing, it is very difficult to clear unless you slow down...



Of course if you are training and that is your goal, you have succeeded...

ridethecliche

In the area I'm in (middletown CT), we don't have any epic climbs. We have a few steep climbs that are about a mile long. I generally do repeats on those. We do have a bunch of roads that are sharp rollers if you want to call them that. Might not be steady climbing, but they're hard because it's hard to find a rhythm.

I don't think anything here would require the use of anything more than a compact double.

I do alternate between sitting on the less steep sections and standing when the grade gets high. I can't climb up some of the short sections seated since they're like 14%...

rodrigaj

In addition to all of the other responses, self message with The Stick has helped me.

Japhy

Mostly said by all. I think with all of the exposure to Lance Armstrong and Chris Carmichael and the "science and technology" of training, some folks think sometimes that there is a formula or a trick to climbing or TTing, etc. There are some tricks, but mostly it is reps and pain. I've been working hard for about 2 years and just now feeling like I can kill it on the climbs. Sometimes. But it always hurts if you are really into it. Keep it up. You'll find your rhythm.

nycphotography

Or just use the family rolling pin.

agarose2000

Learn to enjoy the pain in training. It doesn't matter whether you're mashing, standing, sitting, squatting, etc on the hill.

I can guarantee with 100% certainty that someone beating you on a climb will kill you nearly equally if you asked them to shift down or up a few gears, went compact vs standard, or sat vs stood. You'd have to ask them to do something really unreasonably ridiculous (like go max big gearing on the hill) so you could beat them on the climb.

You can also train your body into riding more effectively in certain positions. I used to be a pure runner, and nearly always stood on climbs, as I could push more effectively into lactate range to keep speed. Now that I'm stronger, I stay seated for the same speed, and stay seated where the vast majority of cyclists are standing (usually seated <18%) , but as I mentioned, I've had plenty of guys stand for nearly a half hour near continuously and crush me up the mountain. If I tried that, I'd burn out within 5 minutes, but that's a result of me preferring the seated to standing in training.

merlin55

Find some experienced riders and ride with them, and ask them. Without see you, your position on the bike, and how you are riding this is just a bunch of guesses by well meaning (mostly) forum junkies

merlinextraligh

I think its a gearing problem. You need a lower gear that you can spin that doesn't burn your legs up.

And I think the fact that the burning eases when you stand indicates that your lowest gear is not low enough for your fitness. (you're effectively giving yourself 2 lower gears by standing and not upshifting.)

What cadence are you riding when this happens?


To the extent its a strength problem, one drill you can do is muscle tensions: Intervals climbing at 50 rpms in the biggest gear you can turn over. So something like 53x 16 on a moderate grade. Work up to sets of 6x10.