grwoolf

I noticed some riders keep their knees in very tight to the top tube when pedaling. Is this just for aero advantage, or does it affect pedal efficiency also? If I pull my knees in that far, it does not feel natural (sort of have to point my toes in/heels out to get my knees in that tight). When working on my pedal stroke/cadence, is this something I should be thinking about?

ptle

I have heard its done for a slight aerodynamic advantage.

CrimsonKarter21

pedaling efficiency. It's just the way I ride I guess, I never thought of why I do it. When I hammer really hard, my knees go straight up and down, but that's because my pedal stroke becomes really inefficient.

KiddSisko

Knees pulled against the top bar during a descent will decrease drag and increase speed. I've tested it, noticed the speed increase, so it's official. More than likely there's a drag reduction during pedaling as well. That's where minimal Q factor enters into the picture. (Q measures distance from crank arm to crank arm)

rooftest

Be careful. I learned (the hard way) that it's a good way to injure your knee.

Metzinger

Yeah, don't be forcing your knees one way or another. The deviations of movement from a single plane that your knee makes, is due in part to your unique relative shapes of the bones at the knee joint. Pulling your knees in or out can stress things.

Think circles

botto 

buy a set of rollers, ride them regularly.

daredevil

I'm no expert on this stuff but isn't the aerodynamics of it simply an extra advantage? An efficient pedal stroke requires the knees in, period. Right?

AEO

no.
depends on how your legs work.
they should go pretty much straight up and down, with slight '8' shaped wobble.
if your knees track inward or outward, it can be that your legs are just shaped that way, your muscles aren't formed evenly or the Q-factor in your pedals aren't the proper width for you.

AEO

try some leg presses with your feet parallel to each other, toes in and toes out, try changing the space between your feet.

please do tell me what feels normal and what gets the most power.

HDK

Try leg extensions or leg curls, and tell which way you feet point. I squat with a wide stance toes out but I can't ride a bike that way. Doing leg extensions, my feet point slightly in. NOt sure any of these comparisons have any merit in pedaling style.

grolby

Incorrect. Your knees go straight up and down because that's what they're built to do. It's a good thing. It's not more efficient to tuck them in. Having them splayed way out is bad, too. Which is not to say that having your knees really close to the top tube is bad if it works for you, but the impression that a lot of people have, that this is the sign of a really good pedal stroke, is mistaken. Most people, when they are showing good pedaling form, will have their knees within a few degrees, one way or the other, of straight up and down. Knees in looks more graceful, but there's nothing inherently more correct about brushing the top tube.

DScott

The knee should track in a straight line. Any deviation causes unecessary (and possible damaging) strain on the knee. For some people, that looks like an inward movement, but don't do that deliberately if that's not the natural movement of your legs.

https://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

AEO

btw, you should also try single leg presses and compare.

BigBlueToe

Some people are knock-kneed; some are bow-legged (me.) I ride with my legs the way they naturally go. I don't think about it, so they go where they want on their own. I suppose I could gain some speed by riding with them in a more aerodynamic configuration, but I'd be worried about injuries. Knee injuries worry me. So far, at 58, I've avoided them (knock on wood.)

Urbanmonk

Well, according to my orthopedic surgeon, he said, as some have already expressed, that the knee has its own track that it runs along, specific to each individual. Also, any deviation from that track will result in knee problems. He suggested to me: get some good pedals with ample float and ride where it's comfortable.

Cheers

CrimsonKarter21

I've been riding that way for 5 years now. I'm not too close to the top tube, but there is a slight inward curve to my pedalstroke. However, when I climb my knees go outward, probably because after cutting my knees on my stem bolts, I've adapted, but both work for me.

grolby

That's great. I'm just saying that you are not everyone, and there is nothing inherently more efficient about knees close to the top tube. If that's your ideal pedal stroke, sweet. My objection was to the belief that it's necessarily more "efficient" (most overused word in cycling ). It can't be generalized like that.

CrimsonKarter21

Sorry, I kind of misinterpreted what you were saying earlier. It's kinda late.


And I'd have to disagree with you on the efficiency thing. "Aero" is the most overused cycling term. We're at the point where people think saddles, and Lance Armstrong's lack of a testicle is done for "aero".

DaveSSS 

If the knees swing in and out, it's usually an indicator of a foot alignment problem that could use correction with cleat shims or canted insoles. It is NOT a good thing.

Another common problem is just the opposite, where the knees swing wide at the top of the stroke. I see this quite frequently, particularly with the left leg. I've followed a lot of riders with this problem. I also see some whose knees make a circular motion at the top of the stroke.

It's best if the knees go straight up and down.

saratoga

Never paid much attention to myself, but have noticed others. One guy that used to ride with us brushed the top tube with his right knee while the left took a straighter path. Thought that was odd, but hey- if that's how you're made, so be it.

andr0id

Knees should mostly move straight up and down directly over the foot and pedal. Too far out and too far in are both less than ideal and create sideward stresses on the joint.

I wouldn't call it efficient or aero, just making sure my knees last into my old age.