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  1. #1
    Senior Member Fox Farm's Avatar
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    Campy Record 10 or Chorus 11?

    I sort of hate to pose one of those "this or that?" type of questions but some feed back from the gallery would be helpful. I just picked up a new frame and fork and will be building it up. I currently have Campy 10 speed Record on my other bike and, well, there is nothing at all to be critical of with that group; it's 4 years old. For the new bike, I could either go with Record 10 (at closeout) and have the ease of swapping wheel sets back and forth with out changing the cassette depending on which set I want to use with which frame, or, I could move towards the new "generation" of 11 speed stuff. Swapping wheels would involve a cassette change, which is a 3 minute swap. SO, am I better off staying with 10 speed and Record or should I bite the bullet and go with the latest 11 speed group but Chorus? The 11 speed Record stuff is stupid expensive. I have not ridden the new 11 speed ergo levers. I really like my 10 speed Record stuff and it shifts just fine. Oh yea, if I stay with 10 speed, I could possibly avoid the cost of buying another 10 speed cassette that would come with the Record group. What do you think?

  2. #2
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    I've been through this several times, with 8-9-10 & 11 speed Campy. Each time I moved on the new groups as soon as they came out and have no regrets.

    Record 11 can be bought about as cheap as Record 10, if you know where to buy. Most US dealers have outrageous prices, but prices from a number of UK sources charge about the same for 10 or 11 speed parts.

    I bought all of my 11 speed parts late last year and early this year for far less than 10 speed prices in the US, by taking advantage of favorable exchange rates.

    If you know your facts about the difference between Super Record, Record and Chorus, you know that the groups above Chorus offer very little for the extra money. A new Chorus 11 group is only about $1100. Record is almost $500 more and you get very little of value for it. The shifters are identical. The Record crank only weighs 40 grams less and has ceramic hybrid crank bearings. Their are minor difference in the RD.

    I'm still seeing the lowest prices at Ribble. Just don't forget that any prices displayed in US dollars have a 15% tax added to them, that gets deducted upon check out. Some other sites have this tax already deducted, so they may appear to be cheaper, but aren't.

    If you want to keep using 10 speed, consider buying Centaur for a lot less. Record 10 parts are no longer in production, except as repair parts. Eventually, most dealers will only stock Centaur cassettes as 10 speed replacements.
    Last edited by DaveSSS; 08-09-09 at 05:00 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Fox Farm's Avatar
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    Good points. Given that cassettes for 10 may become a little more scarce, 11 Chorus might make more sense. I don't really get what you get for the price of Super Record, other than the fun of looking at it. I'll also check out Ribble.

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    The real issue here is whether you have worked out an alternative to the 11speed chain tool from Campy. If you haven't yet solved that issue (do a search), then you are not out of the woods with regard to a pretty steep price difference (should you need to buy the tool for the 11 speed chain).

    Otherwise everything above is spot on and I would recommend any 2009+ stuff as the ergo levers are a terrific improvement. Since you find value in swapping wheelsets with 10spd, I would stick with that...simplicity is elegant.

  5. #5
    Living Notoriously Well mr handy's Avatar
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    One of the owners of my lbs rides chorus 11 and he said he threw a wheel with a 10 speed cassette on and it shifted surprisingly well without any adjustment, just an extra click.

    I personally would want 11... for no other reason then if I can afford it I want the newer stuff... I went with 9 speed 105 on my bike right as 10 speed 105 came out. I wish I had worked to get the new stuff.
    .........Dyslexic.........

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    Senior Member Jay Andriot's Avatar
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    The UK prices are very good. I had a near new 10 speed record set up on my bike but liked the shape of the new shifters. So instead of going with a new 11 speed set up I just swapped out the Record QS shifters for a new set of Centaur. The Centaurs are the new shape but they are 10 speed. Some purest may scauff at putting such a low end shifter on a Record set up but I don't care. They work great and feel even better. The Record/Centaur set up has a couple more seasons to go then maybe I'll go 11 speed, maybe not.

    Jay

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    Awesome summary Dave, as usual! I've been trying to decide between Chorus 11, or Record 11. I know Chorus is now a great deal, $500 less than Record, but not much sacrificed to Record. I also know I love looking at my bike, and seeing Chorus on there would make me wish I sprang for Record and it's increased carbon and black bits. I have 8-speed now, so it's not like I would be going from Record 10 to 11. That would be a much harder decision. The chain tool for 11 speed has to get cheaper, or be produced by another cheaper firm. It just has to!

    To the OP, if you can use your 10 speed rear wheels with an 11 speed setup, I would get either Chorus or Record 11 without hesitation. Better shifter ergo, newer, cooler.

  8. #8
    Elmira>Taiwan>Elmira flatlander_48's Avatar
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    There was a test of the 11 speed equipment in a recent issue of Road Bike Action. Basically what they learned from the Campagnolo folks was that the goal was to improve the shifting. Once they figured that out, they realized that there was enough room for an 11th cog on the cassette. They didn't start out to make an 11 speed set up.
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  9. #9
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    I met with a Campy rep sometime last year when he came in to demo the Super Record stuff. The design of the new lever felt great then. The pivot for it was moved so you get better brake manipulation from the hoods. + the reasons already said, I'd go Chorus 11 over Record 10. Chorus will definitely still work like a dream.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Fox Farm's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone. Will post the build up on the new Orca probably in Sept. For now, it's the trusty Merlin with Record 10.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by couleeman View Post
    The real issue here is whether you have worked out an alternative to the 11speed chain tool from Campy.
    Is the 10-speed KMC link regarded as an acceptable alternative? I know that DaveSSS was using one.

  12. #12
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    The only links that I know to be workable with the 11 speed chain are the SRAM 10 powerloc and the no-longer-made Wipperman 10S1. The width across the inner plates is the same as the Campy UN 10 speed chain. I tried a Forster superlink model 4 and it clicked every time it went over the cassette. KMC has a new 11 speed chain, but it's just now coming out. I've not found it available yet.

    About the chain tool. Park has a new tool that is made just for flaring the end of the new Campy joining pin. Another tool is still required to install the pin. Just about any 10 speed chain tool can be used to break the 11 speed chain and install the pin, if you're careful. Even an older tool can be made to fit the 11 speed chain with a little filing. The center U-shaped support on my old CT-3 just needed a little filing on the drive pin side to make the support thinner and allow the outer plates to move further back, so pressure is not exerted on the inner plates.

    Installing the pin is much like the HD-L pin. The chain should be draped over the BB shell so there is no tension on the chain, while the pin is installed from the left side. The guide pin must be snapped off, just like a Shimano pin. After that, the flaring tool is used to flare the right end of the pin, when the quide was snapped off.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
    About the chain tool. Park has a new tool that is made just for flaring the end of the new Campy joining pin. Another tool is still required to install the pin. Just about any 10 speed chain tool can be used to break the 11 speed chain and install the pin, if you're careful. Even an older tool can be made to fit the 11 speed chain with a little filing. The center U-shaped support on my old CT-3 just needed a little filing on the drive pin side to make the support thinner and allow the outer plates to move further back, so pressure is not exerted on the inner plates.

    Installing the pin is much like the HD-L pin. The chain should be draped over the BB shell so there is no tension on the chain, while the pin is installed from the left side. The guide pin must be snapped off, just like a Shimano pin. After that, the flaring tool is used to flare the right end of the pin, when the quide was snapped off.
    Oh boy! So the nice 10-speed chain tool I got cheap from Nashbar, plus a cheap Park pin spreader, and I can go 11 without spending another $180 on the Campy chain tool!? I have to check this Park tool out! Thanks again, Dave!

  14. #14
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    Thanks Dave, that is the most thorough explanation I have seen to date regarding an actual work-around. I am grateful for your post.

    The nearest shop that has the Campy 11 tool for hire is thirty+ minutes from me so this chain issue WAS something to overcome for me as well regarding my decision.

    I searched high and low for the SRAM powerloc and it works perfectly for me, though I had resigned myself to using the nearest shop had it not worked out this way.

    FWIW, I am VERY pleased with the 11 speed Athena/Chorus drivetrain.

  15. #15
    Hey let's ride. pathdoc's Avatar
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    I'm okay with 10 and don't see a whole bunch of benefit with 11 speeds. I'm a true blue Campy freak BTW.

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