That deserves its own thread. Shimano shifted its production from South Korea to China.
Besides, the OP really shouldn't support a backwards economy that doesn't provide adequate vacation time, healthcare and education for their workers. They're being left behind by more progressive countries that'll leave them further and further behind with each passing generation. But he won't recognize any of that until it's time for him to check into a retirement home and find that there's none, and there wont' be any government funding for his care and his kids are nowhere to be found.
Last edited by DannoXYZ; 08-17-09 at 01:29 PM.
Psimet2001 I get the OP's point, don't agree with it but I get it. To buy a Colnago for 5k that was made in Taiwan for pennies on the dollar seems to kind of like buying a Ferrari that was made by Kia. It's not that I have anything against Kia but I really want my Ferrari to be made in Modena. Some firms, like LOOK, are making their frames in Asia but own the plants and have French mangers...this helps in the heritage area. I guess some still want to think that their bikes are still being made by artisans in small shops and are labors of love. If that were true 5k for a frameset would seem like a deal.
To each his own of course but abstractions like "heritage" when it comes to a tool is lost on me since it adds nothing to the overall cycling experience. Tangible things like frame quality and design are more important to me than heritage, though I imagine someone who collects bikes might be concerned with that aspect. The quality of frames coming out of Taiwan is quite good, I don't think so many bike companies would outsource there if they stood any chance of damaging their brands. I'm curious about one thing though, if you're paying $5K for a bike is it more comforting to know that it was made in Europe/US versus Taiwan especially if the product quality is the same?
Last edited by roadiejorge; 08-17-09 at 01:40 PM.
I like pie
It has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia.
I recognize the quality coming from Asia.
I have several Giants that I ride often and love dearly. BUT THEY ARE BASED IN ASIA. I would not buy a Giant if they started making frames in Italy, the USA, Germany, etc. My logic still applies.
The fact remains: Taiwan/China is used to make bikes because of the cheap labor all the while the bikes from big names are still costing $3000+. I don't support that. My $3000 is better spent at a custom, local builder whose frame building operations occur in their original country --- whether that be USA, Italy, Germany, or Taiwan.
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
woodworking (as well as furniture design) has been gutted by really disgusting business practices by the Chinese. I see the same in the Chinese auto industry. This type of thing, I just cannot support with my dollars.
So just like you, it doesn't rule my life but I definitely check and try to buy made in the USA and definitely pass on MIC. I don't need anything THAT bad that it bothers my conscience.
If someone is going to be dropping thousands of dollars on anything, they should be able to be as specific about the origin of the product as they want.
High end Colnagos like mine are still made in Italy. Although, having been to Italy, I would almost trust Taiwanese manufacturers more.
This whole heritage argument is silly. Bianchi is an Italian company. Buying a Bianchi means you bought an Italian bike. We talk about having a German car or American bikes when it's obvious that not all parts where produced in Germany or the US, simply because the brand name slapped onto the product is a German or American company.
I do get what the OP is saying. If you are buying a high end Italian bike, you want something that comes from that tradition. Not something that was popped out of the Giant/Pacific/Whatever megafactory. Similarly, I would favor high end Japanese manufacturers that come from a tradition of racing and/or building excellence. There is something impersonal about outsourcing, where the instrument of manufacture is separate from the source of the design.
The absolute quality of most Taiwanese frames are unimpeachable. I think the argument goes more towards the warm and fuzzies of owning an inhouse designed and built frame. This issue is also big in the high end watch industry.
A generation (or two) ago Japan was indeed making a bunch of junk. The term "Made In Japan" was synonymous with junk. Over time they turned it around, and as you correctly stated they now make among the finest autos and electronics in the world. BillyD buys Sonys and Toyotas, period.
But it took time. Currently neither Taiwan or China are anywhere near the level of Japan. In fact by all apearances China isn't even trying, they're just trying to unload as much junk on the world as they can possibly get away with.
Lumping Japan into the same boat with China is the height of injustice. It's just wrong!
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinsonWhere else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdonTitanium Division
To answer the OP: my Bianchi 928 has a big sticker on the head tube that says Made In Italy. (Although, now that I think about it, why doesn't it say Fatto in Italia ????)
And FWIW, it was built up in my American garage by my American self with components designed in America but made in Taiwan.
Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!
Chinese industry steals ideas and knocks off designs as a business model.
Trade shows displaying the latest from worldwide makers and the Chinese would show up with empty booths. They would spend the week photographing and measuring everything and display knockoff prototypes at the end of the show.
Legal yet unethical. Twisting the intent and integrity of community. These are the things I refuse to support with my dollars. That is just one small example of what MIC means to me.
Sure it's a small thing but it makes me feel better to avoid MIC when possible.
I think there is a lot of support for Chinese products here. I am not sure why it is SO strong or if it is in defense of purchasing so much of it in your household. But, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. The reality is people buy what they can afford and see things differently now than 20 years ago regarding purchases.
I don't think a hardline either way is very realistic. But, I do feel that if possible, MIC should be avoided.
Although the OP didn't make this distinction, for me, I see no real difference from a company like Turner that outsources it's designs to an American company for manufacture vs one that outsources to a foreign company. (Other than the desire to support American jobs, which is perfectly commendable, in my opinion)
Just throwing it out there.