Anything not made in Taiwan/China/Asia
08-17-09, 07:49 AM
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I'm not a native born American. I came here as an adult and became a citizen this year. It's a fact the USA holds truer to capitalism and the rights of the individual to succeed or fail than most developed countries. But there are safety nets, though not all are government provided.
Product safety, workplace safety, equity, trademark, etc, laws in the States are on par with the best in the world. And I've been in most European and many Asian countries.
China, on the other hand...
Product safety, workplace safety, equity, trademark, etc, laws in the States are on par with the best in the world. And I've been in most European and many Asian countries.
China, on the other hand...
08-17-09, 07:51 AM
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With regards to the saw I am a part time woodworker. It is a hobby. I am not looking for an industrial machine. So $5,000 budget for a table saw 10" single phase what are my US made options? I could not find any, buit I suspect there is someone out there.
Like I said for me it is an old restored Unisaw.
Richard
PS. Even Starrett is moving some operations to China.
Like I said for me it is an old restored Unisaw.
Richard
PS. Even Starrett is moving some operations to China.
First let's take China....like anywhere else you can find good quality or bad quality. You just have to pay for it. Most aren't willing to...which is why you can't find the table saw you want.
It's not that I don't buy Chinese measuring devices because of bad quality...I just buy good wquality measuring devices....regardless of where they are made. Can't tell me there aren't any Chinese parts or boards in my Brown and Sharpe or Mitutoyo CMM....just sayin....
No worries machining cast. There are still plenty of us doing it although one of the biggest stateside consumers of it has taken a dump that's stinking up the industry. I'll give you a hint - their name is 3 letters and two of them are C and T.
Making high precision big cast iron parts stateside will always have it's place. At the very least you always win when it comes to the logistics. Kind of goes along with the saying, "you can't outsource plumbing."
It's not that I don't buy Chinese measuring devices because of bad quality...I just buy good wquality measuring devices....regardless of where they are made. Can't tell me there aren't any Chinese parts or boards in my Brown and Sharpe or Mitutoyo CMM....just sayin....
No worries machining cast. There are still plenty of us doing it although one of the biggest stateside consumers of it has taken a dump that's stinking up the industry. I'll give you a hint - their name is 3 letters and two of them are C and T.
Making high precision big cast iron parts stateside will always have it's place. At the very least you always win when it comes to the logistics. Kind of goes along with the saying, "you can't outsource plumbing."
08-17-09, 08:12 AM
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Don't take it personally, but you seem a bit ignorant as far as politics and economics go.
Fact: China (although they have little to no workers' rights laws and low production standards) is a giant country with tons of people and more political clout than any other country besides the US nowadays.
Your claim: If we don't buy stuff made in China, we can "protest" against their "inhumanity".
Reason 1 why that is ignorant: Even if you somehow lowered a factory's profits, it wouldn't change the rights of the workers. Unless there are significant economic losses (on the order of billions of dollars), Chinese politics is backwards and inbred enough to just write off their losses and keep their course. You aren't dealing with Europe here. The "lone warrior fighting injustice by not buying Chinese frames" mentality is useless, most likely.
Reason 2: A country only gains workers' rights when they have economic growth or stability (in the usual sense). Unfortunately, more than half of Chinese citizens live in what we would consider to be poverty conditions. By not buying from China, you are just delaying the moment when the Chinese people finally collectively demand more rights from their gov't. Change in Chinese politics won't come from outside pressure (I mean, look at how they are supporting N. Korea right now against the wishes of every 1st world country), it will come from within. And that change will only come when China's economics situation becomes better.
So, if you REALLY want to help workers' rights, donate the money you would have spent on your frame to the right charity. Or just buy the frame.
08-17-09, 08:14 AM
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Sadly it's that same 'truer capitalism' that drives nearly everything to be made in China, or at least outside of the US. The people want cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. I just spent a month there, and did a lot of shopping for clothing and kitchen goods; I don't think I bought a single item made in the US.
08-17-09, 08:21 AM
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08-17-09, 08:23 AM
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08-17-09, 08:28 AM
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I would not say 99.9, but now I am just splitting hairs. When I want something to work properly, it is fairly difficult to make, and it is a special interest for me then I don't shop by price, but rather quality. Examples for me are Bikes, flyrods, tools, telescopes, knives, camping gear, footware, and photography.
Richard
Richard
08-17-09, 08:48 AM
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I would not say 99.9, but now I am just splitting hairs. When I want something to work properly, it is fairly difficult to make, and it is a special interest for me then I don't shop by price, but rather quality. Examples for me are Bikes, flyrods, tools, telescopes, knives, camping gear, footware, and photography.
Richard
Richard
08-17-09, 09:00 AM
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Yes it appears most footware is being exported. I have some Vasque boots not made in China, but I think they are now. My beloved Simms is being made overseas now. Not sure about Patatgonia, but I think they are as well. Will have to check.
Richard
Richard
08-17-09, 09:02 AM
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They must be really old Vasque boots. I remember buying an Italian made pair in the late 80s, and by the mid 90s when I needed a replacement they were being produced in Asia, but I don't remember which country.
08-17-09, 09:11 AM
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.......................too many places to go with this one................must back away from the keyboard..............
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08-17-09, 10:01 AM
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Sadly it's that same 'truer capitalism' that drives nearly everything to be made in China, or at least outside of the US. The people want cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. I just spent a month there, and did a lot of shopping for clothing and kitchen goods; I don't think I bought a single item made in the US.
08-17-09, 10:04 AM
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08-17-09, 10:08 AM
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Been laid off once this year already. Same with just about everyone else. Correction though...I am in Chicago...where everything else in American gets machined. 
Not sure where you were going with your original statement but my basic feelings are that no one owes American factory workers anything other than a safe work environment and a paycheck as agreed upon at hiring. Period.
Nobody owes me anything. I roll my own.
Not sure where you were going with your original statement but my basic feelings are that no one owes American factory workers anything other than a safe work environment and a paycheck as agreed upon at hiring. Period.
Nobody owes me anything. I roll my own.
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08-17-09, 10:11 AM
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08-17-09, 10:18 AM
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some people want to buy usa to support american jobs. misguided but not offensive.
The OP is happy to sacrifice american jobs and buy from European suppliers, so patriotism is not what motivates him. clearly hatred of asians is behind his sentiments. anyone but asian.
The OP is happy to sacrifice american jobs and buy from European suppliers, so patriotism is not what motivates him. clearly hatred of asians is behind his sentiments. anyone but asian.
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08-17-09, 10:19 AM
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08-17-09, 10:22 AM
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08-17-09, 11:37 AM
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Been laid off once this year already. Same with just about everyone else. Correction though...I am in Chicago...where everything else in American gets machined.
Not sure where you were going with your original statement but my basic feelings are that no one owes American factory workers anything other than a safe work environment and a paycheck as agreed upon at hiring. Period.
Nobody owes me anything. I roll my own.
Not sure where you were going with your original statement but my basic feelings are that no one owes American factory workers anything other than a safe work environment and a paycheck as agreed upon at hiring. Period.
Nobody owes me anything. I roll my own.
08-17-09, 12:13 PM
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Go custom. Giving the economics of the bike industry, any bike south of 2G will be made in Taiwan/China. And they will be of good quality. If you want USA made, go custom. European-made frames can picked from a shop like GVH Bikes or off eBay. But they will all cost so be prepared to dig into your pockets to get a USA or European-made frame.
08-17-09, 12:18 PM
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My Bianchi San Jose is made in Taiwan. Realistically, there is no way Bianchi can sell a $600 CX bike with European high cost labor. So something has to give and like it or not, most European and American bike manufacturers have outsourced all but their high end bike production overseas. Like it or not, globalization has changed the face of the bike industry.