America-based bike companies?
07-17-04, 11:10 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by catatonic
you will notice most bikes saying "engineered in the USA" or "designed in the USA" or something to that effect...it's jsut a marketing trick.
The Designed int eh USA tag on my Diamondback offends me for that very reason....but I cant peel it off since it's under the clearcoat...nothing even alluding to US labor should be on a bike that was made overseas...otherwise please add a Made in Taiwan tag as well, at least be truthful about it.
The Designed int eh USA tag on my Diamondback offends me for that very reason....but I cant peel it off since it's under the clearcoat...nothing even alluding to US labor should be on a bike that was made overseas...otherwise please add a Made in Taiwan tag as well, at least be truthful about it.
07-17-04, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by skiahh
Hmmm.... yes, it is a marketing gimmick, but why can't they be proud of what was done in the US? Hell, anyone can weld tubes together, but it's the design that makes the bike work the way it does. Why should they not put designed or engineered in the USA on it? Isn't that the same as saying Made in the USA if it's physically assembled here? C'mon, get off your high horse.
07-17-04, 01:38 PM
#53
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Sure they can be proud...but at the same time, those labels never showed up until after the made in teh usa flag labels showed up...so unless you actually read it, you could be mislead into believeing it was completely made in the usa.
From what i understand, the design and marketing is about the only htings done in the us. All the actual "making" of it is in china. And well...I don't see Cisco Systems, or Dell trying to brag about their domestic contributions anyways. Same goes for Ford...they maybe make a handful of models domestic at best...so they make no reference to american building....since its either canada (mustang) or mexico (most of it).
Also, the design bears little anymore since all tehy are doing is assembling off the shelf parts. Frames may or may not be an exception here. Plus It takes a certain amount of skill to properly weld. It may not be fine art, but you have to know what you are doing.
No high horse here, I'm just saying if they brag about the made in teh US part, might as well brag about everywhere it's made.
From what i understand, the design and marketing is about the only htings done in the us. All the actual "making" of it is in china. And well...I don't see Cisco Systems, or Dell trying to brag about their domestic contributions anyways. Same goes for Ford...they maybe make a handful of models domestic at best...so they make no reference to american building....since its either canada (mustang) or mexico (most of it).
Also, the design bears little anymore since all tehy are doing is assembling off the shelf parts. Frames may or may not be an exception here. Plus It takes a certain amount of skill to properly weld. It may not be fine art, but you have to know what you are doing.
No high horse here, I'm just saying if they brag about the made in teh US part, might as well brag about everywhere it's made.
07-17-04, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by catatonic
made in china, jsut like diamondback...but they all sport teh "designed in USA" tag.
07-17-04, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by shokhead
Anybody can weld tubes together? Are you sure because i'm not,not at all.
07-18-04, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyMcD
I was at my LBS today browsing their new road bikes, and I noticed a lot of "made in Taiwan" stickers on the frames. Particularly I noticed them on Giant frames, but the Giant website made no mention of out-of-country manufacturing.
I was wondering what bike companies manufacture their frames in the USA.
I was wondering what bike companies manufacture their frames in the USA.
This might be a stupid question but why does it mater, most of the other componets on the bike are not made in the US, such as Shimano etc. Shimano bike is part of the Shimano group that makes fishing gear etc, also, Campy isn't either right? I was just wondering, I could see if you where buying a bike that was totally from the US then I might understand a reason. but just a frame? What's the big deal? Just wondering.
07-18-04, 07:39 PM
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I don't know of any American-made components (and I probably couldn't afford them). However, I do have the choice to buy American on the frame. And I will.
07-18-04, 08:15 PM
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For all of you worked up over thinking that outsourcing is doing harm to USA, here is something to consider: Through various trade agreements US is ruining the agriculture industry in various developing countries (to which the manufacturing jobs are oursourced to). Through big subsidies to US agriculture conglomerates US has kept the price on grains artificially low in the international market. These corporations dump the agriculture products (many of them obtained through high yield mechanized agriculture with GM seeds) on poor countries (like mexico), thereby destroying their centuries old native strains of crops (like maze) and leaving masses, who depend on agriculture for subsistance, poor and wretched. The governments of these poor countries allow this practice because they need the manufacturing jobs, and in some cases because the corrupt leaders in these countries are being bribed.
Point is, it is hardly noble to harp on how US is getting the short end through the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs without considering how the masses in these 'outsourced' contries are being screwed by the same agreements and arrangements that not only permit but encourage outsourcing. I do not beleive that global economy is a bad thing, just that the ideas and priciples behind the justification for the viability of a global economy can lead to practices that result in misuse and abuse, thereby leaving masses worse off than they were. In many cases US is knowingly tolerating these practices (to benefit its corporations), just like the poor countries tolerating lax environment standards etc. that someone mentioned.
Point is, it is hardly noble to harp on how US is getting the short end through the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs without considering how the masses in these 'outsourced' contries are being screwed by the same agreements and arrangements that not only permit but encourage outsourcing. I do not beleive that global economy is a bad thing, just that the ideas and priciples behind the justification for the viability of a global economy can lead to practices that result in misuse and abuse, thereby leaving masses worse off than they were. In many cases US is knowingly tolerating these practices (to benefit its corporations), just like the poor countries tolerating lax environment standards etc. that someone mentioned.
07-18-04, 10:27 PM
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Yea your right. this isn't OCC(orange county choppers), where you go in and give them a truck load of money and "Build what ever you want and Call" , but on the other hand some those Taiwan bikes look like 'Built , designed and engineered in Taiwan !
Originally Posted by peligro
Yeah, couldn't agree more on those stickers...not only do they say "designed in usa" they have the nerve to put on a big American flag too.
07-19-04, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by late
It's a global economy. There was a year or two recently where it was possbile to get every part made in America; but I think that is no longer true. Even if they did, it would make no sense to buy an American rear der, for example, for 4 or 5 times what the top Shimano costs.
For most it would mean buying a cheaper frame. Which usually means a non-American frame.
The reality is that we have economic interdependence. A lot of old guys want to hang onto the old ways. So their countries wind up subsidising various industries, Which usually kills them in the long run. It makes sense to protect a few key industries relating to defense. Beyond that, you are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot. You can point to losses created by this change. But there have also been gains. Americans by any historical standard are wealthy. We live longer, have more free time, more disposable income than quite a few kings in history. Capitalism is often called "creative destruction" for those reasons. . Sorry, but the basics are the same for us as they were when England was on top a century ago. And the basics include having a world class education system (our secondary education is a mess)..a healthy economy (our debt levels are a nightmare) and good relations with your neighbors (oops). Chasing after spilt milk is not a winning strategy.
For most it would mean buying a cheaper frame. Which usually means a non-American frame.
The reality is that we have economic interdependence. A lot of old guys want to hang onto the old ways. So their countries wind up subsidising various industries, Which usually kills them in the long run. It makes sense to protect a few key industries relating to defense. Beyond that, you are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot. You can point to losses created by this change. But there have also been gains. Americans by any historical standard are wealthy. We live longer, have more free time, more disposable income than quite a few kings in history. Capitalism is often called "creative destruction" for those reasons. . Sorry, but the basics are the same for us as they were when England was on top a century ago. And the basics include having a world class education system (our secondary education is a mess)..a healthy economy (our debt levels are a nightmare) and good relations with your neighbors (oops). Chasing after spilt milk is not a winning strategy.
Actually, proportionally, individual wealth is much lower than it ever have been in the U.S. before. Also, the divide between rich and poor is the greatest it has ever been before. While we live longer, quality of life is constantly under assault. Increasingly also, small business owners are facing previously unprecedented high levels of of debt.
My biggest problem with manufacture abroad is that the folks in China & Indonesia still hate us, and are completely ideologically pitted against the USA. (Aside from the record low wage growth levels globalization has levied upon the western world).
07-19-04, 08:23 AM
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I think we have much more billionares and much more poor but thats because they are flooding over here across the border. Small business owners are defined differently. I consider it under 20 employees but some think 200 is small.
07-19-04, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jshct
I don't think anyone said a bike made in the US is better(performance wise). What I and perhaps a few others are saying, is that its important to consider supporting US companies who produce quality products vs. products produced abroad. I realize that many cannot afford high end US frames, & that's ok. But if comes down to equal price(its worth it to me to spend a few more dollars) and equal quality I will choose a US product any day. Perhaps you ascribe to the tenet that "the business of business is business"' that is, just let market forces sort things out. I have a problem with that for ethical reasons. But everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and I respect that.
