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  1. #51
    Member Ibikeowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
    ...

    Do you ride differently when you see a car in the mirror? Do you move over to the right side of your 3 feet? Do you dive in the ditch if you think they aren't swerving for you??...
    1. If I'm going up a small hill and can make it to the top before the car, then I'll speed up to avoid a nasty situation -- or, conversely, slow down a bit so the car can pass in a safer zone.
    2. I'll take that small pothole head on rather than swerving to the middle of the road.
    3. I'll stop talking with the person beside me and move over, without having to constantly be turning my head during the conversation to check for cars.
    4. If the car stays behind me for a while (which I can check via the mirror) I'll give a thank-you wave before it finally makes the move to pass me.
    5. I have been on roads where I will sometimes choose discretion over valor and the shoulder over the side of a road with a truck passing 2 feet beside me.

    I find mirrors more useful on country roads. In the city, I would also just assume there is a car behind me.

  2. #52
    Gunner. robncircus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Which do you think is a better outcome: getting ass-packed at 50mph by a car you didn't know was there, or swerving off the road before you get hit?
    I figure is they are so close to the edge that you need to get off the road than they're probably coming off the road with you anyway. Situations I know of where people were hit from behind the drivers were either drunk or sleeping and basically plowed right through them - either way the driver was coming off the road.

    Anyway, I'm not going to debate this A&S stuff. I don't think mirrors cause any additional danger so the outcome from use can only be even or better in the end.

    Cheers

    Rob

  3. #53
    Live to ride ride to live Carbon Unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
    Not picking a stupid boardie fight or anything, just genuinely curious... HOW does it help more than not seeing the car coming at all?

    Do you ride differently when you see a car in the mirror? Do you move over to the right side of your 3 feet? Do you dive in the ditch if you think they aren't swerving for you??

    I assume two things when I ride, 1) I'm invisible and 2) there's a car behind me at all times. I've learned to look back before I make moves into the lane and would never trust a glance in a mirror to give me the full view of what's going on behind me (meaning, you have to look back anyway). Nor do I want anything at all blocking my view to the front left, where there are oncoming cars who want to turn left and potentially hit me (a MUCH bigger concern, imo, than cars coming from behind, I can't tell you how many times some taxi or whatever is watching the cars and not me coming toward him, just waiting for the gap that he can turn, forcing me to grab a handful of breaks and almost find jesus)....
    It is important for me to see behind for a couple of reasons. One, I don't typically ride in the gutter, but if I see someone behind me that is close to the bike lane, I will move to the right so I a buffer between the car and me. A mirror is great for just a quick glance behind you to see what is coming.

    Two, if I am going to make a left turn at a signal, I need to cross over anywhere from one to three lanes of traffic from the bike lane. I can't turn my head far enough to see all of the lanes and even if I could, I would need to take my eyes off of the road ahead of me which I don't like.

    So, I will not ride without a mirror period.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Crossing lanes I'd never trust a mirror. I just sit up, slow down, and take my time looking for a chance to cross. If I can't cross, I go to the intersection and become a pedestrian. No hurry man.


    Ibikeowa... nice. THAT makes sense to me!

  5. #55
    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Which do you think is a better outcome: getting ass-packed at 50mph by a car you didn't know was there, or swerving off the road before you get hit?
    So some guys coming at you.... at what point do you decide he's about to ass-pack you and you dive for the ditch?

  6. #56
    Freddin' it
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    It's amazing the arguments I read to justify not having a mirror. I read the same logic on motorcycle forums about helmets. So someone tell me how not having a mirror is safer than having one. Driving, riding, flying are all the same. It's all about situational awareness and integrating your own position and plan with those around you. Hard to do that with a 180 degree view instead of 360. As the fighter pilots say, "Check six." (Six o'clock)

  7. #57
    Old School Track Guy MGtrack's Avatar
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    attach a camera to your seatpost pointing backwards. Run video cable to small LCD TV mounted on your handlebars.

    For extra points, add an antenna and watch Oprah while pedaling.

    Or, just learn to glance backwards while riding straight.
    "You've got to be willing to rip it all apart. Including yourself."
    ---Steve Woznik -- Multi time USA Sprint and Kilo Champion, Pan Am Games Gold Medalist


  8. #58
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGtrack View Post
    attach a camera to your seatpost pointing backwards. Run video cable to small LCD TV mounted on your handlebars.
    Like this?
    http://www.cerevellum.com/

  9. #59
    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    That gets oprah?

  10. #60
    Old School Track Guy MGtrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    Whoa!!!! Seriously!!!!
    Thanks for that link. I was obviosly joking, but that's actually kind of cool.

    Now if only it could be set up for video conferencing and I could fake a background that looks like my office -- I'd get in a lot more miles!
    "You've got to be willing to rip it all apart. Including yourself."
    ---Steve Woznik -- Multi time USA Sprint and Kilo Champion, Pan Am Games Gold Medalist


  11. #61
    Senior Member vger285's Avatar
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    Those are cool, if you got $379

  12. #62
    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akansaskid View Post
    So someone tell me how not having a mirror is safer than having one. Driving, riding, flying are all the same.
    I think Ibikeowa had good reasons TO have one, but the two reasons I can think not to have one... 1) blind spot and 2) a distraction.

  13. #63
    umd
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    In general, the people that I pass with mirrors are far sketchier and far worse at holding a line than those without. I will give them a lot more room when I pass because they are more likely to get spooked and swerve towards me...

  14. #64
    Senior Member
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    Get a Take A Look mirror and mount it on a pair of sunglasses. I have been using this setup for over a year now and would no more ride my bike without it than drive my car without seat belts. I can see what's behind me with a glance in a fraction of a second and never have to lose sight of what's in front of me. Call me a Fred if you want.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGtrack View Post
    Whoa!!!! Seriously!!!!
    Thanks for that link. I was obviosly joking, but that's actually kind of cool.

    Now if only it could be set up for video conferencing and I could fake a background that looks like my office -- I'd get in a lot more miles!
    When I originally saw that site, it clearly said the display worked with ANT+.
    The last time I looked, I couldn't find a mention of it.

  16. #66
    Live to ride ride to live Carbon Unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
    Crossing lanes I'd never trust a mirror. I just sit up, slow down, and take my time looking for a chance to cross. If I can't cross, I go to the intersection and become a pedestrian. No hurry man.


    Ibikeowa... nice. THAT makes sense to me!
    Do you trust the rear view mirror in your car when making a lane change?

    I have been on roads that you would need to be an owl in order to turn your head far enough to safely see. I have used my mirror to change lanes and am very confident that I can do it safely without turning my head.

  17. #67
    Live to ride ride to live Carbon Unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin0cr1 View Post
    Get a Take A Look mirror and mount it on a pair of sunglasses. I have been using this setup for over a year now and would no more ride my bike without it than drive my car without seat belts. I can see what's behind me with a glance in a fraction of a second and never have to lose sight of what's in front of me. Call me a Fred if you want.
    This is the mirror that I use and I would not ride without it. In my opinion, best bike mirror on the market.

  18. #68
    Old School Track Guy MGtrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin0cr1 View Post
    Call me a Fred if you want.
    Thanks Fred!


    FYI -- I'm the guy (Fred?) with the BIG red winky blinky light on the back and wearing the hi viz jersey and socks because I've been hit by cars three times.
    "You've got to be willing to rip it all apart. Including yourself."
    ---Steve Woznik -- Multi time USA Sprint and Kilo Champion, Pan Am Games Gold Medalist


  19. #69
    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon Unit View Post
    Do you trust the rear view mirror in your car when making a lane change?

    I have been on roads that you would need to be an owl in order to turn your head far enough to safely see. I have used my mirror to change lanes and am very confident that I can do it safely without turning my head.
    Why the car comparisons? Tell you what... if you were doing 20 in a 45-55 zone, would you trust your mirrors to change lanes? I wouldn't. You better owl it!

    But... in a car where I'm going the same speed of everyone around and have spent x number of minutes with those other cars and understand my surroundings, yeah, I may just trust my mirrors (eventhough I've cut off a guy here and there in a seemingly mundane situation).

    Just sit up, to show you are slowing, take a look back, and start figuring out if and when you can cross lanes. I do it every day at this one point of my commute, it's a hard right, then up a hill of 5 lanes (2 each side and a turn lane in the middle) that becomes 6 when my lane splits. I'm pigeoned into the lane after the turn because the bridge I cross first has no room for me. After the little bridge, I sit up, and start looking back and forth waiting for a big enough break of cars doing 45 or so. As soon as it's clear, I cross. OR, when I turn right, if everyone's stuck at the light, I hammer up and over and take the turn lane to go left all by myself (my favourite days). Easy peasy. No mirrors needed, wouldn't do me any good anyhow.

  20. #70
    Senior Member Tsuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
    Why the car comparisons? Tell you what... if you were doing 20 in a 45-55 zone, would you trust your mirrors to change lanes? I wouldn't. You better owl it!

    But... in a car where I'm going the same speed of everyone around and have spent x number of minutes with those other cars and understand my surroundings, yeah, I may just trust my mirrors (eventhough I've cut off a guy here and there in a seemingly mundane situation).

    Just sit up, to show you are slowing, take a look back, and start figuring out if and when you can cross lanes. I do it every day at this one point of my commute, it's a hard right, then up a hill of 5 lanes (2 each side and a turn lane in the middle) that becomes 6 when my lane splits. I'm pigeoned into the lane after the turn because the bridge I cross first has no room for me. After the little bridge, I sit up, and start looking back and forth waiting for a big enough break of cars doing 45 or so. As soon as it's clear, I cross. OR, when I turn right, if everyone's stuck at the light, I hammer up and over and take the turn lane to go left all by myself (my favourite days). Easy peasy. No mirrors needed, wouldn't do me any good anyhow.
    I even drew a map:


  21. #71
    Senior Member jdon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
    i'm been using a bar-end mirror (italian road bike mirror) for a little over a month and i think it is a great tool. I tried the bike peddler first and liked it ok, but found the field of view pretty small and i had to admust my head to get a good look anyway. The irbm is convex, so it is very easy to get a quick look at everything behind you with a quick glance down without any head movement. For me, it is a tool to get a quick assessment of my surroundings, not a replacement for turning my head and taking a look. If i want to change lanes and see a bunch of traffic in my mirror, there is no point in turning my head 10 times until it is clear. Once it clears up in the mirror, it's just a quick head turn as a final check. I also like the irbm because it is a solid mount (vs. Messing with glasses/helmet mount) and it's real glass (vs. Plastic).
    +1.

  22. #72
    Live to ride ride to live Carbon Unit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuru View Post
    I even drew a map:

    Whatever you are comfortable with. Myself, I wouldn't do that ride without a mirror. A guy I ride with won't wear a mirror either and I have watched him take chances because he didn't see cars behind him. I have had to warn him before when cross lanes as well; but everyone's different.

    Also, the roads I ride also have a more traffic on them than the photo in your example and I still use a mirror.

    Your not going to try to talk me out of my helmet too are you?

  23. #73
    Roadkill byte_speed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon Unit View Post
    That is why handlebar mirrors are useless. With a helmet or sunglasses mounted mirror, you just need to turn your head slightly to see behind you.
    And by turning your head just a bit more, you can scan on both sides behind you (as in a lane merge situation).

  24. #74
    Senior Member downtube42's Avatar
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    I propose an experiment. We need some volunteers.

    1st group of volunteers rides with a mirror.
    2nd group of volunteers rides without a mirror.
    Since too much data is a distraction, we have additional groups:

    3rd group of vounteers rides without a mirror and with one ear plugged.
    4th group of volunteers rides without a mirror and with both ears plugged.
    Continuing with the logic:

    5th group of volunteers rides without a mirror, both ears plugged, and one eye covered.
    6th group of volunteers rides without a mirror, both ears plugged, and both eyes covered.

    Report back in 30 days. I'm in the 1st group.
    What is bicycle touring?
    "So I kept looking and eventually found that a spark plug had same threads. So I cycled next two days until I got to Jackson, MS with a spark plug instead of right pedal." - mev

  25. #75
    cyclepath daredevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimconyc View Post
    Look in bike mirror
    Car going fifty is fast
    Mirror does not help
    Sorry but that is wrong. The mirror tells you his lane position. Now that is helpful I'd say. I ride in 50 mph traffic on a road with no shoulder every day and I wouldn't consider doing it without a mirror.
    Last edited by daredevil; 09-02-09 at 07:40 PM.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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