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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 09-15-09, 04:11 PM   #1
Chris V
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Design Student Looking for Answers

Hello everybody, my name is Chris. I am a design student at Metropolitan State of Denver, Colorado. I am designing for the Kestral brand through the school for a road or tri bike. I am just looking for general opinions on preferences of bikes. If you could answer any or all of the questions below I would really appreciate it.

1) What bike do you ride?
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...)
3) Do you compete in races?
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike?
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.
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Old 09-15-09, 04:48 PM   #2
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1) I have five currently:
a) 2008 Bianchi 928 T-Cube
b) 2008 Fetish Ankh
c) 2000 Trek 5200
d) 1989 Trek 660
e) 1986 Gazelle Champion Mondial

2) Each fulfills a specific purpose. The Bianchi is my race bike, the Fetish is my CX bike, the 5200 is my former road race bike now converted to a tri bike, the 660 is my fixed gear conversion, the Gazelle is my sunny Sunday roadie.

3) Yes. I'm a Cat 3 on the road and a newbie (C class) CX racer.

4) Yes. A handlebar mounted electromagnetic pulse generator for disabling the jackass motorists who buzz me, cut me off, honk horns, etc.

5) I'm waiting for them to work out the matrices on transparent aluminum for my next frame.
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Old 09-15-09, 05:18 PM   #3
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1) What bike do you ride? Soma Double Cross Cyclocross bike

2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...) It can do just about anything, commuting, touring, long distance riding, off-pavement riding, group rides.

3) Do you compete in races? No

4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike? A low cost GPS & fitness tracking device.

5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components. Cycling electronics are now aftermarket add-ons. Someone should develop a bike with a brain to provide directions, GPS positioning, heart-rate & other fitness data. A hub generator should power these devices.
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Old 09-15-09, 05:34 PM   #4
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1) What bike do you ride? A Cervelo RS
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...) Good reputation, bling value
3) Do you compete in races? No
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike? I would like a bike computer which showed wind speed. A little pitot tube would do the trick. The actual wind speed would be the difference in bike speed and what it reads.
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.[/My favorite designs are on the Pinarellos
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Old 09-15-09, 05:39 PM   #5
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1) What bike do you ride?
a) caad9
b) miyata 615
c) generic CX
d) generic 27in conversion fixed gear.
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...)
a) really like how it rides and handles compared to the rest
b) really good touring/commuting frame that is quite good for its age
c) really like the flexibility in tire choice, with a choice range from 23mm to 50mm tires
d) good for unattractiveness to thieves, good commuter.
3) Do you compete in races?
no
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike?
road/CX frame with raised chainstays.
modern frame with long horizontal drop outs.
size 52cm and under frames with slack seat tube angle, around 73 STA, possibly by bending seat tube. the STA on smaller sizes is just ridiculous at 74~74.5 STA, requiring setback seatposts in the 32mm set back range.
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.
if you ignore UCI rules on bike design, the possibilities really open up.
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Old 09-15-09, 07:32 PM   #6
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I always liked the Big Wheel design.
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Old 09-15-09, 07:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V View Post
Hello everybody, my name is Chris. I am a design student at Metropolitan State of Denver, Colorado. I am designing for the Kestral brand through the school for a road or tri bike. I am just looking for general opinions on preferences of bikes. If you could answer any or all of the questions below I would really appreciate it.

1) What bike do you ride?
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...)
3) Do you compete in races?
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike?
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.
1) Kestrel Talon SL
(also a Trek Soho S)
(also a Nashbar Road Mk II)
2) I like aero looking bikes
3) Hopefully soon
4) To be determined
5) Nope

Last edited by Kerian; 09-15-09 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 09-15-09, 07:52 PM   #8
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>I am a design student at Metropolitan State of Denver<

If you're a student, you get an "F" from me for your work, Chris. I hope I would never purchase a bike based on questions put to people on a Web forum.
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Old 09-15-09, 07:55 PM   #9
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>I am a design student at Metropolitan State of Denver<

If you're a student, you get an "F" from me for your work, Chris. I hope I would never purchase a bike based on questions put to people on a Web forum.
Oh stop.

Don't listen to him kid. Just carry on.

Bear in mind that all cyclists are idiots, and the Biggest Idiots are right here. I am their Leader.
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Old 09-15-09, 08:03 PM   #10
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>I am a design student at Metropolitan State of Denver<

If you're a student, you get an "F" from me for your work, Chris. I hope I would never purchase a bike based on questions put to people on a Web forum.
It's the approach the Sean from Soul used. I think he came up with a pretty decent bike. Asking the customer what they want instead of building whatever and then marketing the hell out of it until they think they might want it is a novel idea. Who knows, it just might work.
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Old 09-15-09, 08:06 PM   #11
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Hello everybody, my name is Chris. I am a design student at Metropolitan State of Denver, Colorado. I am designing for the Kestral brand through the school for a road or tri bike. I am just looking for general opinions on preferences of bikes. If you could answer any or all of the questions below I would really appreciate it.

1) What bike do you ride?
PedalForce RS
Colnago MasterXLight
Joshua Fisher
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...)
PedalForce RS: price, it's CF and won't rust, stiff enough for me, handles reasonably well.
Colnago MasterXLight: ride is great, fits reasonably well.
Joshua Fisher: I don't recall. Wouldn't buy it again.
3) Do you compete in races?
Nope
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike?
A self changing tube? A tire that won't pick up thorns? They don't exist!
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.
It's tough finding the right geometry for those of us shorter than 5'9".
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Old 09-15-09, 08:08 PM   #12
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1) Pedal Force CG1 and others (Fuji Roubaix RC, Specialized Stumpjumper S-Works HT)
2) Lightweight. Cheap. BB30, ISP. Good company
3) yes
4) Lightweight, aero, stiff, and cheap.
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Old 09-15-09, 08:17 PM   #13
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It really doesn't matter. Unless you have your own bike company you design to specs from the marketing department, not the other way around.
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Old 09-15-09, 08:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V View Post
1) What bike do you ride?
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...)
3) Do you compete in races?
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike?
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.
1) Ciocc COM 12.5, Surly Pacer, Miyata 312, Bianchi Pista (all steel)

2) For the Ciocc I wanted something 'distinct' though looking back it's not really a good reason to buy a bicycle. Nonetheless I love the bike, and enjoy it being one of the only Cioccs in the peloton (there is another).

The Pacer was bought for commuting, rain rides, and some long-distance stuff too.

3) Yes, beginner level (cat 5), I race the Ciocc

4) An easy way to convince non-cyclists that cycling is actually fun.

5) Open Pro wheels are good enough for 95% of cyclists - that said I might get some aero wheels next year.
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Old 09-15-09, 08:32 PM   #15
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Oh stop.

Don't listen to him kid. Just carry on.

Bear in mind that all cyclists are idiots, and the Biggest Idiots are right here. I am their Leader.
PCad, after that statement, I would follow you into the gates of hell on a huffy!
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Old 09-15-09, 08:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V View Post
I am designing for the Kestral brand ...
Kestrel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V View Post

1) What bike do you ride? Cervelo Soloist Team, Cannondale Super V500 (mountainbike converted to road use), Miyata Pro (fixed gear), Felt S25 (Tri-bike)
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...) Good value, reputation.
3) Do you compete in races? Not for the last 2 years. Former Cat 4 racer and triathlete.
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike? There's a bike called the Cat Cheetah that has a bladder built into the frame to hold water. I always thought that was a brilliant idea but I haven't seen it on any other bike.
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Old 09-15-09, 08:55 PM   #17
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First rule in design: eff what anyone else thinks.
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Old 09-15-09, 09:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris V View Post
1) What bike do you ride?
2) What made you buy that bike (special feature, brand, etc...)
3) Do you compete in races?
4) Is there something you always wanted but can not find for a bike?
5) Any input in general on bike designs and/or components.
1. Cannondale SystemSix (C), Giant TCR Carbon (G)
2. C - SRM, BB30, 1 1/4" lower bearing in headtube. Stiff. Replaceable rear dropout. Short head tube. Beefy all carbon fork. G - cheap, fit me.
3. Cat 3 (mainly crits), Cat 4 track.
4. Longer top tubes. There are framesets out there for long legged, for avg, but not for short legged (or long torso). I have short legs, long torso.
5. 1 1/4" lower headset bearings, BB30 would be first on my list. Then stiff, aero.

Fantasy - Maybe blade type fork (I'm calling it blade, but like the new TT forks on TT bikes from Giant, Spec, etc). Vertical blade fork, bar clamp, brake, etc all built into it. Maybe pocket for battery (Di2, lights, cam, computer, etc). Aero seat post.

Obviously I prefer a racer type bike. Short chainstays, short head tube, long TT, stiff, predictable, jumpy.

If I could get everything, I'd also say "make it possible to take it on a plane w/o paying oversize fees".

You have an interesting assignment. Have fun.

cdr
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Old 09-15-09, 09:15 PM   #19
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Are you two working on the same project??

Frame/Bike Design: What do you want?
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Old 09-15-09, 09:31 PM   #20
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1) CAAD9-6

2) Because everyone on Bikeforums said it was good, so I was in and out of the bike shop in about 30 minutes. No, I'm not kidding. I didn't even bother to test ride the Trek, Scott, or Felt they had at the same price range.

3) No

4) I want a cupholder on the handlebars. Its a simple idea, but I'm sure someone could come up with a half decent retention system for a damn cup.

5) If its carbon, don't paint over it. Carbon is sexy.
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Old 09-15-09, 09:52 PM   #21
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If you don't know much about bicycles, or cycling in general, PLEASE do some on-the-road research before trying any radical changes. Ride a "normal" road bike for a few thousand miles. Over the years, the industry has been plagued by well-meaning inventors and entrepeneurs whose "outsider perspective" has led them to create solutions to problems that don't exist, spreading misinformation in the process.

On the other hand, if they're hiring you to come up with cool new paint jobs, go nuts!
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Old 09-15-09, 10:31 PM   #22
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If you don't know much about bicycles, or cycling in general, PLEASE do some on-the-road research before trying any radical changes. Ride a "normal" road bike for a few thousand miles. Over the years, the industry has been plagued by well-meaning inventors and entrepeneurs whose "outsider perspective" has led them to create solutions to problems that don't exist, spreading misinformation in the process.

On the other hand, if they're hiring you to come up with cool new paint jobs, go nuts!
+1

I find it interesting that these projects want to use bicycles as their basis for improvement, and I suspect that most of the students know next to nothing about bicycles and cycling in general. They remember the bicycle they had as a kid, and a few might commute to school on some old beater, but no real idea what a cyclist who competes, or who spends a large portion of their time on a bicycle, wants.

Why not use wash machines? Design a wash machine for me that uses next to no water and recycles the water it does use. And one that uses very little electrical power - like maybe a 12 Volt wash machine. I'd find that a whole lot more useful than a small, unnecessary, improvement to my bicycle.
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Old 09-15-09, 10:33 PM   #23
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First rule in design: eff what anyone else thinks.
This philosophy is known as NIH (Not Invented Here) Syndrome. It's great for one's ego, but bad for basically any other metric.
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Old 09-15-09, 10:47 PM   #24
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+1

I find it interesting that these projects want to use bicycles as their basis for improvement, and I suspect that most of the students know next to nothing about bicycles and cycling in general. They remember the bicycle they had as a kid, and a few might commute to school on some old beater, but no real idea what a cyclist who competes, or who spends a large portion of their time on a bicycle, wants.

Why not use wash machines? Design a wash machine for me that uses next to no water and recycles the water it does use. And one that uses very little electrical power - like maybe a 12 Volt wash machine. I'd find that a whole lot more useful than a small, unnecessary, improvement to my bicycle.
I don't really see the harm in experimenting with bicycle designs. Who knows, it might not please you but perhaps someone else..

I mean if it's a program through Kestrel then they're certainly looking at the designs and critiquing them, not saying "sure we'll build whatever you say, kid."

At least I'm guessing.. hopefully we won't see the next Softride come out of this.
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Old 09-15-09, 10:56 PM   #25
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It would be interesting to know more about what the goals of the design are instead of just some vague notion of a bikes deficiencies. It reminds me of the fashionable commuting clothes designed by people who haven't ridden a bike in years or for any real distance.
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