Zschroeder

I try whenever possible to buy American manufactured products and now that I’m working on building a road bike I'm trying my best. The frame was easy (not on the checkbook but I had many US options), I bought a Lynskey R330 and seat post.

Now I'm looking at all the extra bits. I think the hardest bit will be components, I don't think any are made in the US, but I have a hierarchy of other countries I will buy from. I'm looking at Ultegra, Force, and Chorus from 2010. Could folks that own these parts check to see if there are manufacturing stamps on them that show where they were made? Or if anyone happens to know. The only one I could find was that Chorus is made in either Italy or Romania.

Any advice on other good quality / value American parts would be helpful as well. Wheels, Handbars, seats, etc. Basically my hierarchy is US, Europe, Japan, and then the rest is really difficult.

AngryScientist 

your fighting an impracticable battle.

RedWhiteandRed

The items manufactured in Taiwan tend to be of the highest quality. The devotion of the Taiwanese to competitiveness through delivering the best possible quality at the best price never fails to amaze.

FlashUNC

Just buy the components you think work best for you.
Trying for this American-made goal (completely unattainable btw) will only bring you disappointment because it simply doesn't exist.

Zschroeder

In general or with a bike? I like to atleast weigh my options. When it comes to dress shoes I'm willing to pay for Allen Edmonds, there american made, they are good quality, and they last me 10 years minimum. When it comes to sneakers there are only two models of New Balance still made in the US, and that is it for sneakers no other manufacturers, no other models, at that point I'm forced to buy elsewhere.

MM225

why

Zschroeder

I would like to atleast know where they are made before I purchas. I'm assuming that Force and Ultergra are made in Taiwan. I'm not necisarily opposed to that, but this is something I like taking into consideration.

kindablue

I'm afraid to ask, but why the hierarchy? Are the manufactures in Japan less deserving than those in Europe? Plus isn't SRAM an American based company? (I'm assuming their manufacturing is outsourced b/c of their prices)

Zschroeder

I'm an economist and work as an economic developer so I have some entrenched ideologies.

roadiejorge 

Fair enough, nothing wrong with trying to buy American when you can. The sad part is manufacturing in this country keeps shrinking so American companies tend to rely on foreign manufacturers that can build products to their specs. You can get frames made in the US but if you're looking for gruppos then chances are they're foreign made, either Japan or Taiwan.

kindablue

^ Fair enough. Hopefully, I'll be the last one to ask you that

scr660

Then you should care more about where the profits are going and less about where the product is made.

gregf83 

Do you also recommend that your European colleagues stay away from buying US goods and services even if they are better than the competition. I prefer to let the strongest survive.

ReynoldsLugs

Not trying to hijack this thread - it's interesting, something worth debating, arguing about, and understanding - and I respect the fact that Grant at Rivendell at least thinks about it - and writes about it on the website - the complex relationship between Made in USA products (MUSA brand at Rivendell), Taiwanese quality, and the dollar/yen exchange rate. Noodle around the site www.rivbike.com; look at the "through the knothole" posting on money a month or so ago.

RedWhiteandRed

In this instance the most merciful and rational thing to do is behave rationally and get the best product at the lowest price. Might as well remove that band-aid with a firm tug as with a prolonged agony.

Zschroeder

Where the profits are returned is an important point, but not the only point. If Sram was made in America and owned American it would be an easy choice, but my concern more is the impact on the middle class. To me it is more important that Sram would be employing a couple hundred parts manufacturers locally then for them to have more of a profit margin to make their executives and investors richer.

Where the profits are returned is an important point, but not the only point. If Sram was made in America and owned American it would be an easy choice, but my concern more is the impact on the middle class. To me it is more important that Sram would be employing a couple hundred parts manufacturers locally then for them to have more of a profit margin to make their executives and investors richer.

There is always a tipping point to this, but after looking through thousands of documents and making thousands of calculations the impact on communities and this country is that if the product is manufactured here there is a greater positive impact then the total positive impact of less costly goods to the consumer and greater income for the executives and investors.

MM225

<citation needed>

Leaving that issue aside, you still haven't explained the rest of your hierarchy. I get the "Buy American" preference, but why are European jobs more important than jobs in countries that didn't make your list?

Zschroeder

Here is the article Rivbike, the most interesting thing from their site was a picture from the front page of a guy riding a bike with Allen Edmond shoes... kind of weird since I brought that company up.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/159

Zschroeder

To Answer Hierarchy. The buy local thing is easy, I live in a second generation neighborhood in Omaha NE, I eat at locally owned neighborhoods, grocery stores, etc, in midtown as much as I can as this helps my neighbors out the most. Then I buy Omaha, then Nebraska, Midwest, then the US. The jump to other countries takes another philosophical leap, since it’s no longer about helping my neighbors, state, country, etc. The leap for me is about Union labor and the conditions of middle class labor in Europe and my frustration as an economist and student of social anthropology (my undergraduate degree).

Did you know European workers start with 4 weeks of paid vacation the day they start a new job (not to mention the many more days of paid holidays per year). I have a decent job in the US but it will take me 20 years to work up to that level. That’s a lot of sweet week long rides I’m missing out on that my European counterparts are gaining… one of many things I support.

Japan is next in it’s treatment of workers, then it goes downhill from there.

Zschroeder

meant to say restaruants not neigborhoods after "I eat at locally owned..."

clausen

What your problem with Canada?

Zschroeder

Now I'm pissing off everyone : ) Sorry, Canada is actually between the US and Europe with me. Australia, New Zealand are equal in my mind with Europe. I also travel to the developing contries a couple times a year, and I go directly to workshops to buy products from workers instead of buying from gift shops.... so many layers to this.

logdrum

That is why you buy SRAM. Manufactured in Taiwan but a US company. In the event that the USA cannot import or outsource anything anymore or we have a fascistic government that insists on no imports, then with SRAM being in the Upper Midwest where there are a lot of manufacturing prowess still, then you'll have an American made gruppo.

logdrum

Last time I visited Romania in 95 it was close to a third country than I'd like to see. I think that's where they make Campagnolo

Taiwanese get more holidays than US workers.

Zschroeder

Logdrum. That is how I'm leaning at the moment. US owned but Taiwan made, close 2nd would be Campy Italian owned Romanian made, last would be Ultegra Japan owned assumed Taiwan made.