I say bah to those who think wheel weight doesn't matter.
#51
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An object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an external force.
Since the wheel is constantly changing direction(moving in a circle) and constantly acted upon by external forces(wind resistance, rolling resistance, spokes that keep it moving in a circle instead of a straight line). Due to it applying to vectors, and the fact that none of us ride in frictionless vacuums,Newtons first law may not apply as much as you would like it to.
Though I agree with your point I don't think newtons first law itself is the answer but the idea of inertia behind it does have good application.
Since the wheel is constantly changing direction(moving in a circle) and constantly acted upon by external forces(wind resistance, rolling resistance, spokes that keep it moving in a circle instead of a straight line). Due to it applying to vectors, and the fact that none of us ride in frictionless vacuums,Newtons first law may not apply as much as you would like it to.
Though I agree with your point I don't think newtons first law itself is the answer but the idea of inertia behind it does have good application.
#52
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Super cool. I have no reason to doubt you.
I am a huge LeMond fan. I was a young college racer when he was tearing up the pro-circuit.
I'm not sure if you've mentioned you were his buddy here before, but I need to ask: Why would you bring this up in an internet forum?
At any rate, if you would, please mention there are those who still strongly support him.
-Z
I am a huge LeMond fan. I was a young college racer when he was tearing up the pro-circuit.
I'm not sure if you've mentioned you were his buddy here before, but I need to ask: Why would you bring this up in an internet forum?
At any rate, if you would, please mention there are those who still strongly support him.
-Z
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#57
Has coddling tendencies.
But it did start a rigorous debate, which is more fun.
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy
you have proof of this? it sounds like you are contradicting Newton's first law
Originally Posted by 12-13-09 07:47 PMrpeterson
I may make unrealistic hyperbolic claims, but at least I don't defy Newton, that's just too far man.
An object in motion tends to stay in motion in a perfect vacuum, with no gravity, no friction, no wheel bearings, and no tires. This law does not apply to something on the planet earth with wheels. If weight did not matter, then if you put a 150lbs. passenger on your bike rack it would be just as easy to go 20 mph with him as without him. A car with five people would get the same mileage as an emtpy car. etc.etc.
If a rider does not notice a change it only means the rider does not understand, not that there is no change.
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Its great when someone starts a post out like this, and then demonstrates that common sense is not all that common.
In summary, wheel weight matters, but with in the reasonable range that bike wheesl weigh, it does not matter any more then any other weight. The "flywheel" effect that so many try to use to support their aruguement does not have a measureable affect when applied to a bike wheel.
In summary, wheel weight matters, but with in the reasonable range that bike wheesl weigh, it does not matter any more then any other weight. The "flywheel" effect that so many try to use to support their aruguement does not have a measureable affect when applied to a bike wheel.
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I religiously read every thread about weight and aerodynamics, especially when they involve wheels. Why?
First, there's a chance I'll learn something.
More importantly though, watching all the flailing about with high school physics seasoned with a few money technical words the poster doesn't really understand is absolutely comedy gold.
First, there's a chance I'll learn something.
More importantly though, watching all the flailing about with high school physics seasoned with a few money technical words the poster doesn't really understand is absolutely comedy gold.
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Staarkhand: Awesome.
Just in case anybody actually cares about the math for real:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...r=asc&start=45
Read the post by Mark McM.
Just in case anybody actually cares about the math for real:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...r=asc&start=45
Read the post by Mark McM.
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who says wheel weight doesn't matter?
And what I don't get is cyclists who buy expensive stuff when they aren't racers. I understand having a comfortable, quick bike, but people spend thousands on lightwieght wheels, high end components... if you're looking to go faster, buy disc wheels, aero bars, TT frame. For me I would just as soon get heavier components, I'm not racing, so it helps build muscle. People excercies with ankle weights, why not use weights in biking?
And what I don't get is cyclists who buy expensive stuff when they aren't racers. I understand having a comfortable, quick bike, but people spend thousands on lightwieght wheels, high end components... if you're looking to go faster, buy disc wheels, aero bars, TT frame. For me I would just as soon get heavier components, I'm not racing, so it helps build muscle. People excercies with ankle weights, why not use weights in biking?
#65
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it's pointless. he doesn't get it. I ask for proof and get a lot of technobabble instead.
science is not about posturing. it is about experiment. There are plenty of experimental models available and plenty of data recorded but perhaps the best example would be Sosenka's world hour record in which the wheels used were designed to be heavier than normal. In fact the entire bike was 20 pounds or so.
science is not about posturing. it is about experiment. There are plenty of experimental models available and plenty of data recorded but perhaps the best example would be Sosenka's world hour record in which the wheels used were designed to be heavier than normal. In fact the entire bike was 20 pounds or so.
#66
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So rather than try to understand the scientific discussions here I just went out and got more data yesterday and today. 2 more laps with the new wheels, then switched the old set back on for once more. Over the 3 laps the new wheels averaged a 1.7mph gain in the climbing with a 5% HR increase and an 6% cadence drop, so I'm pretty sure my gains are coming from being able to push that next gear up comfortably while climbing. When I went back to the old wheels I had a 7% HR increase, 9% cadence drop, and had a 1.5mph gain, I was still able to push a gear higher than usual, but it took a tiny bit more effort, trying to spin the lower gear my HR was going up and I was well above my comfortable climbing cadence.
So what do I get from this? Well yes, the wheels do make a difference, but between the wheels, tubes, and skewers that difference is just over 1kg, which I doubt anyone is really going to tell me will hurt my climbing performance. What I do suspect though, is that my winter training regime (Westside for Skinny Bastards + structured interval training) is helping quite a bit more than I first suspected. Oh, and pretty new things always have a positive effect on performance.
So what do I get from this? Well yes, the wheels do make a difference, but between the wheels, tubes, and skewers that difference is just over 1kg, which I doubt anyone is really going to tell me will hurt my climbing performance. What I do suspect though, is that my winter training regime (Westside for Skinny Bastards + structured interval training) is helping quite a bit more than I first suspected. Oh, and pretty new things always have a positive effect on performance.
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What are the tires on the respective wheels, and did you consider the computer calibration issue?
And if you really think 1kg is making that big of difference, try this experiment; do the ride with one water bottle 2/3rds full, then do the ride with 2 waterbottles full. That's a kg of weight.
Most people can't tell the difference climibng with empty or full waterbottles, and its certainly not 1.7mph on a loop with flats and descents as well as climbing.
And if you really think 1kg is making that big of difference, try this experiment; do the ride with one water bottle 2/3rds full, then do the ride with 2 waterbottles full. That's a kg of weight.
Most people can't tell the difference climibng with empty or full waterbottles, and its certainly not 1.7mph on a loop with flats and descents as well as climbing.
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#69
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Finally got a few pictures for ya. Greg actually gave these tubular wheels to me as a gift but since I don't race at all, I've decided to sell them. (Had him autograph them before I said I would take them or not). This set of wheels are brand new, never has tubulars installed on them, much less installed on a bike. Rather than let then sit, I've decided to sell them. Any clew as to what I might ask/receive for them?!?
#70
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Latex tubes are more flexible and puncture resistant. They just lose air more quickly than butyl.
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#73
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Finally got a few pictures for ya. Greg actually gave these tubular wheels to me as a gift but since I don't race at all, I've decided to sell them. (Had him autograph them before I said I would take them or not). This set of wheels are brand new, never has tubulars installed on them, much less installed on a bike. Rather than let then sit, I've decided to sell them. Any clew as to what I might ask/receive for them?!?
#74
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Finally got a few pictures for ya. Greg actually gave these tubular wheels to me as a gift but since I don't race at all, I've decided to sell them. (Had him autograph them before I said I would take them or not). This set of wheels are brand new, never has tubulars installed on them, much less installed on a bike. Rather than let then sit, I've decided to sell them. Any clew as to what I might ask/receive for them?!?
Thanks,
FB