Two-a-days
02-01-10, 08:33 AM
#1
dude
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Two-a-days
Most elite middle-distance and long-distance runners do two workouts per day. Even most collegiate runners in the USA do two-a-days at least 3 or 4 times a week. There have been a few running-specific studies that point towards more benefit coming from 2 one-hour runs as opposed to one two-hour run.
I'm wondering: do any of y'all ride twice per day? For example, a short AM rollers session and a long evening ride (or vice-versa)? If so, how often? Are there any elite-level cyclists known to do more than one training session per day?
(I posted another running-related question about sprinting on easy days, and the replies got me thinking about the similarities/differences between running and cycling - thus, this question).
Thanks for any feedback.
I'm wondering: do any of y'all ride twice per day? For example, a short AM rollers session and a long evening ride (or vice-versa)? If so, how often? Are there any elite-level cyclists known to do more than one training session per day?
(I posted another running-related question about sprinting on easy days, and the replies got me thinking about the similarities/differences between running and cycling - thus, this question).
Thanks for any feedback.
02-01-10, 08:46 AM
#2
pan y agua
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I think the vast majority of cyclists do one ride per day, unless they have time limitations or commute that require splitting the workout into multiple sessions.
It may be just that its always been done like that, or that its more time efficient.
However, I think there's also a difference in the nature of the sports in that cycling doesn't pound your body, and you can better recover between efforts on the bike.
Also the nature of the events you're traing for is different. i.e. if you're running 5000 meters, doing two one hour workouts might have some benefit.
But if you're traing for an 80 mile road race, one 3 hour ride is likely to work better than two 90 minute rides.
It might be interesting to see if 2 one hour workouts would make you a faster crit racer.
It may be just that its always been done like that, or that its more time efficient.
However, I think there's also a difference in the nature of the sports in that cycling doesn't pound your body, and you can better recover between efforts on the bike.
Also the nature of the events you're traing for is different. i.e. if you're running 5000 meters, doing two one hour workouts might have some benefit.
But if you're traing for an 80 mile road race, one 3 hour ride is likely to work better than two 90 minute rides.
It might be interesting to see if 2 one hour workouts would make you a faster crit racer.
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You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
02-01-10, 08:52 AM
#3
Senior Member
I think the vast majority of cyclists do one ride per day, unless they have time limitations or commute that require splitting the workout into multiple sessions.
It may be just that its always been done like that, or that its more time efficient.
However, I think there's also a difference in the nature of the sports in that cycling doesn't pound your body, and you can better recover between efforts on the bike.
Also the nature of the events you're traing for is different. i.e. if you're running 5000 meters, doing two one hour workouts might have some benefit.
But if you're traing for an 80 mile road race, one 3 hour ride is likely to work better than two 90 minute rides.
It might be interesting to see if 2 one hour workouts would make you a faster crit racer.
It may be just that its always been done like that, or that its more time efficient.
However, I think there's also a difference in the nature of the sports in that cycling doesn't pound your body, and you can better recover between efforts on the bike.
Also the nature of the events you're traing for is different. i.e. if you're running 5000 meters, doing two one hour workouts might have some benefit.
But if you're traing for an 80 mile road race, one 3 hour ride is likely to work better than two 90 minute rides.
It might be interesting to see if 2 one hour workouts would make you a faster crit racer.
02-01-10, 09:17 AM
#4
You gonna eat that?
Yeah, that. Commuting is one of the best ways to get two-a-days in.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
02-01-10, 11:07 AM
#5
Senior Member
I think one of the differences between running and cycling is the impact, or lack thereof, in cycling.
I'm not a runner so I may be way off, but I have some running friends and have read a bit about running. It seems a huge concern is impact. Shoes, soles, should I run bare foot, don't run more than x or y amount, blah blah blah, they're all related to limiting impact. It's not that the runner can't run that long aerobically, but the impact really damages runners.
I don't know if a two-a-day helps spread out that impact stress.
But for cycling, long rides are definitely possible. For sure they help set a base. I think some of the Carmichael time crunched training articles allude to this - they mention that a longer, broader base sets the tone for a longer, broader peak. Short efforts allow you to peak quicker but the peak lasts a shorter time. CTS admits that the time crunched training won't give the same broad peaks as a more traditional method of training, but that it'll work if you're "time crunched". Someone can chime in here with corrections.
I do some long hours when I do my base, and even take a trip to warmer climes to encourage me to do so. 3-4-5-6 hours a day is typically my goal. Then, when I get back home, I find two things. First, 1-2 hours goes by really quickly ("what? that's it?"), and second, I find that I build form for the whole summer with much less structured training (just racing and group rides).
A friend who raced pro for a good half dozen plus years in Europe asked me (I don't know why he asked me, he was the pro) if 2 rides would work instead of one long ride. He just didn't feel like riding 6-8 hours on his long days. Well, he found out that two short rides (3-4 hours each) definitely do NOT work the same as one long ride. I can't tell you the physiology, but the report from the field was "You gotta do long hours".
cdr
I'm not a runner so I may be way off, but I have some running friends and have read a bit about running. It seems a huge concern is impact. Shoes, soles, should I run bare foot, don't run more than x or y amount, blah blah blah, they're all related to limiting impact. It's not that the runner can't run that long aerobically, but the impact really damages runners.
I don't know if a two-a-day helps spread out that impact stress.
But for cycling, long rides are definitely possible. For sure they help set a base. I think some of the Carmichael time crunched training articles allude to this - they mention that a longer, broader base sets the tone for a longer, broader peak. Short efforts allow you to peak quicker but the peak lasts a shorter time. CTS admits that the time crunched training won't give the same broad peaks as a more traditional method of training, but that it'll work if you're "time crunched". Someone can chime in here with corrections.
I do some long hours when I do my base, and even take a trip to warmer climes to encourage me to do so. 3-4-5-6 hours a day is typically my goal. Then, when I get back home, I find two things. First, 1-2 hours goes by really quickly ("what? that's it?"), and second, I find that I build form for the whole summer with much less structured training (just racing and group rides).
A friend who raced pro for a good half dozen plus years in Europe asked me (I don't know why he asked me, he was the pro) if 2 rides would work instead of one long ride. He just didn't feel like riding 6-8 hours on his long days. Well, he found out that two short rides (3-4 hours each) definitely do NOT work the same as one long ride. I can't tell you the physiology, but the report from the field was "You gotta do long hours".
cdr
