Epicus07

I have a specialized Roubaix. I love it to death.

I know that the early 90's carbon fiber bikes had a 10 year shelf life max.

Specialized is giving me a lifetime warranty on the frame. Provided it doesn't get into any accidents and is well maintained how long might i expect it to last?

I overheard some mechanics at my LBS saying that they would never own a carbon bike.

Why not?

Proceed with your usual BF shenanigans. I know you can't help yourselves

tuxbailey

Didn't BF just have a discussion on this?

BarryJo

Because the wrenches at your LBS are clueless?
What are they riding?

BarryJo

About 100 times over.
It all explodes sooner or later.

Quel

One part this, one part "they make $8/hr and can't afford stupid expensive bike crap".

FR4NCH1SE

The only thing that would scare me about carbon is how it shatters to pieces. But then again you have allot of more things to be worried about when you crash at such a speed that your carbon frame shatters, as long as you take care of it and dont drive over huge potholes at 50 plus mph. You should have the frame last your lifetime. I know some frame manufactures test their carbon frames through tests that put allot more stress and wear and tear to the frame, more than a customer would ever put on a frames lifetime and it still holds up well.

FR4NCH1SE

don't forget that they are businessmen too, they try to lie to you just for their services or try to sell things you really dont need, you have to always learn to decline these wrenches.

zeo_max

Because carbon will flew over time

jrobe

"I overheard some mechanics at my LBS saying that they would never own a carbon bike."



They will never own a Porsche either.

Yellowbeard

Oh come on, if anyone is going to have expensive bike crap on $8/hr it's the guys who work at the bike shop.

That said, his shop guys are apparently the opposite of the guys at my shop.

zonatandem

Have 25,000+ miles on our custom full c/f tandem and 10,000+ miles on custom c/f single.
Have broken 2 steel frames and 1 steel fork . . .

Juan Foote

Not my alter ego

/just sayin

JoeyBike

I have worked at bike shops. I have heard the rumors. Pro quality composite frames are designed to last one, maybe two race seasons. It was rare that any frame was returned to us "broken" for no good reason, except carbon frames. No catastrophic failures, just cracks here and there. I won't name manufacturers, because eventually they all made good and replaced the frames under warranty. A couple of customers got cracks in 3 frames in a row - all withing a year each - with no sign of abuse/crashing.

None of us race. A couple guys have ti/carbon frames by Seven Cycles. Titanium is used in all the spots that carbon usually fails. Probably a smart move. The rest of us ride steel. I have a Cinelli SuperCorsa. So the person who said "Bike shop employees can't afford nice bikes" is wrong in our case. The Carbon/Ti Seven Cycles IMX would retail near $10,000. My SuperCorsa around 7K the way I have it set up. One mechanic had an aluminum Torelli with fairly snazzy Mavic wheels. A couple other guys have Seven Cycles all Ti bikes. We could afford composite frames. We sell all kinds of frames. Here is our basic sales pitch shortened:

Carbon frames are going to be light and fast for many types of road races. Pro frames will be expensive and many will lose their properties, or start to crack by your second race season. If someone is sponsoring you and giving you a bike, take a carbon one. Otherwise, expect to pay us to transfer your components over to a new warranty frame at some point. If you crash and damage your frame - it is probably hosed for good. Seven Cycles can replace the carbon tubes on their Ti/Carbon bikes.

Aluminum frames represent the cheapest way to get a high performance and very lightweight rigid frame. Aluminum will probably start to lose its "zing" within five years of racing. Loss of zing will not be handled under warranty. Actual breakage from use (not crashing) will most likely be a warranty issue. Wreck your aluminum frame and dump it in the recycle bin.

Steel and Titanium frames are generally good for ten to twenty years of hard use. My Cinelli is claimed to be good for 10 drive trains. Depending on the geometry, pro quality steel has a plush ride compared to carbon and aluminum. If you wreck a steel frame, often we can straighten it out good as new. Ti frames can be repaired at the factory in most cases.

My advice is to spend as much as possible on wheels. The frame material is not all that relevant for most mortals. You will know if you need a "Tour de France" style carbon frame when someone hands you one, along with matching kit and a paycheck with matching logo.

So that's the shpiel roughly. I am fully aware that Cannondale has a carbon frame model that is under 13 lbs right out of the box. The complete bike sells for about $13K. Roughly the same Ti bike will weigh in around 15 lbs and sell for a bit less usually. My steel Cinelli made from Columbus Neuron steel weighs in at 20 lbs with mid-range Campy and would go for about 7K.

For many riders, the weight of the frame is almost irrelevant compared to a nice set of wheels. If you are racing, and winning, you should be able to justify almost any expense to gain that edge. A new frame every couple of years should not scare you too much. I do training rides with friends who race on occasion. There are a lot of folks on those rides better served by taking ten pounds off their beer bellies than worrying about frame materials.

Bottom line - ride what you want. If you like the look and feel of a nice new carbon frame (I know I do) and you got the means - buy one. Not so much $$$ - try aluminum. Want your bike to be fast enough and last 10 to 20 years of racing - steel.

Juan Foote

Well said ^

JoeyBike

At the shop where I work, we don't really care what you buy. If you ask our opinions, you will get our opinions with honesty. We sell lots of carbon frames. We get many of them back cracked. We do all we can to have them replaced under warranty. We have never failed although some companies take longer than others to act. What we DON'T want, is a customer surprised that his expensive carbon frame gets cracks for no good reason. So we mention that in our pitch. I think our guys push Seven Cycles Ti or Ti/carbon frames hardest. We sell WAY more Bianchi carbon frames than Sevens, and service many, many broken, cracked carbon frames of unknown origin (bought on ebay for instance). I have seen Ti frames break at welds as well as steel frames. Perhaps there is a lot more carbon being ridden. But I never feel compelled to tell a customer that his new steel frame might break in a couple of years (or less).

Epicus07

Thanks for the awesome feedback.

I don't race. I just do a lot of long distance rides for fitness and fun.

Does your advice regarding wheels just apply to benefits for racing? or do you find improved comfort and performance with a better wheelset?
I'm riding on some mavic aksiums but I would be curious to hear if something might offer a better ride.

JoeyBike

Same here. I like the long distance stuff - 50 miles before work and up to 150 on any given day off.

The wheel story is a long one and often useful info is hard to dig up, perhaps because wheel manufacturers would probably sell less wheels if we had all the science at hand. For instance, my Mavic Ksyrium SL wheels have 18 -22 bladed spokes. I dug up some info that claimed a conventional spoked wheel would give me a smoother ride. The drawback to pro quality wheels is, well, they are often designed for pros who easily crank out speeds in the mid 20s (mph). My SLs have a sweet spot near 17mph, the next advantage comes at 23-25 mph (according to some research I found). I like to ride between 19 and 22. Maybe a conventional spoke wheel would have been a better choice for me? My old road bike has Mavic Reflex SUP wheels with conventional spokes. I do find I am faster on those wheels HOWEVER ... I can go 20+ mph much longer on my new wheels with the bladed spokes. And when I get a nice tail wind and actually sustain speeds nearing 25 - freaking awesome!

My opinion for riders like us is to get wheels that are durable (no race day wheels please) with rims as light as practicable. Lots of physics tied up in wheel rotation - less forgiving near the rim - more forgiving near the hub. Next would be quality ball bearings. Third in line would be tire choice. The lighter the better, since tires are at the critical part of the wheel physics. If you are not racing, you don't need race tires or sewups. But a durable tire on the light side will save energy. To a point, inflation helps too, especially if you are a big person. I run 140 psi on my new wheels and 120 on my old ones (same tires). I feel a difference. I weigh in at 155 lbs.

I think your Mavics are a reasonable choice for distance riding. I wish more real science and data were made available to us. The most important value to know would be at what speed does the engineered physics reach the peak and hopefully you could choose a wheel that matches your ability. Pro time trial riders ride near 30 mph. I doubt that their wheels would be advantageous for your distance and fitness riding (or mine).

Hope that helps.

zeo_max

Hey JoeyBike, very informative posts you are making. I just wanted to know, what did you meant by aluminum frames loosing their "zing". Do you mean they flex ? And what problems can "zinging" cause ?

Epicus07

It helps a lot! thanks

I'm running Conti GP 4000s because i caught them both for $60 w/ shipping. I broke my collar bone before winter so i'm just starting to get back on the miles. I'm only riding 25 miles three times a week but slowly ramping it up.

I need to stop being lazy and replace my floor pump w/ broken gauge. I would guess that i've been running at around 115 psi and I'm 200lbs. What PSI would you recommend? I've heard that manufacturer recommendations don't mean much.

Trucker Dan

ITT: trolls trolling trolls

tspek

thegunner

you realize a lot of people work in bike shops in part because they love the job, and partially because EP makes everything cost about 40-50% MSRP right?

patentcad

When you say that carbon frames will last '1-2 seasons', bear in mind that's pros riding 15K+ miles annually and subjecting all parts of the frame to considerably greater stress than most amateurs. Higher miles, higher torque, higher speeds. So if a pro CF frame will tolerate a pro's usage for 2 years, how many years will it tolerate mine? I split my riding up between several bicycles, so no bike gets more than say 4-5K miles per year. Combine that with the lower stresses of amateur riding and racing compared to the pros, and that 1-2 years can easily become 5-8 years. If you're into this sport enough to buy a $3K-$10K CF racing bicycle, what are the odds you'll even keep most bicycles more than 5-8 years before you want to replace them?

Grumpy McTrumpy

don't bother. It's a made-up statistic.

roadiejorge 

Then if you factor in the Ride-to-Starbucks crowd you're looking at a carbon frame that will last you 10-15, but interestingly enough they'll probably replace their frames quicker than those who ride their bikes more often and harder.