crhilton

Not only does this vary by state but it can vary by district. Some schools have rockin' med plans. It can help make up for the low pay.

crhilton

The answer is yes. You pay for it. If the treatment isn't outside of the range of services you normally provide then you provide it. If few people have the lifestyle problem it won't be a big deal. If lots of people have it they'll be regulated socially: You'll give smokers dirty looks (if they're your coworkers, you already should be) and kick them out of restaurants and bars (like so many places already have).

You'll deal with this the same way you do it now because government insurance and insurance don't look that much different.

crhilton

Will you be giving up 911 as well? Or are you okay allowing society to provide rule of law?

Geez man. Talk about taking this to weird extremes.

Dealing with other people's stupidity is a part of having a society. You can skip out on helping the guy/gal with 5 kids on his own, but if they survive you're just gonna have 5 screwed up kids. And while they're surviving they're going to be difficult to deal with. It doesn't take a village to raise a kid, but it affects the village when you don't raise the kid.

We get benefits from having a society too, it's not all bad. That's probably why we do it. We could just all live in the wilderness by ourselves.


I think they should leave the guy who stranded himself by the way. That just seems nuts.

spry

Albert Einstein could not decipher your policy to see if you are covered.The insurers like it that way,it's all crap.I'm for what the Cannuckers have.

Hammertoe

Self employed...

$14,500/yr for a family plan with a $5,000 deductible and various levels of drug co-pays...

We meet the deductible every year due to a genetic illness...

So I start the year $20,000 behind the eight ball with the fear we may be dropped for a pre-existing condition...



Ain't America great....

Atol

For such a big country, our health care is in the toilet compared to any other westernized country. Most of them also manage to spend less than half of our current health care expenditures per capita and yet they're able to provide coverage to everyone.

If you let doctors deal directly with patients, then you'll be able to realistically make the argument that people should pay for their own healthcare. At that point it will actually be affordable and will allow for competition between doctors to bring down the prices. (Wal-Mart hospitals please) That idea is nothing more than a pipe dream though. Too many interest groups and lobbyists wanting their paycheck instead of what is good for the people. It'll get thrown out before it even hits the voting floor.

dalava

Not true, ask the Canadians or the Brits.

dalava

Sorry to hear your situation. it's a crime this is happening today, in the richest country ever in human history.

dalava

For you to have what the Canucks have, three key elements must be part of the health care system:
1. it must be a single payer system (not necessarily government, but single payer, ask the Swiss how they did it and why)
2. it must be mandatory for all (to increase the risk pool. The healthy pays for the sick)
3. it must have a fixed price for any given service

this have been proven to be the only way a health care system can work that provides GOOD care to ALL. Too bad it's a none-starter for any discussion in the US here. It's a uniquely American concept that we are entitled to everything that's the BEST care, NOW, and CHEAP. You have to give up something.

Fat Boy

On this point, we almost agree. Americans want what is best for them. It's called self-reliance, and it is largely the idea our country was founded upon. Politicians are promising it to us cheap...don't believe it. Cheap has never cost so much.

trek2.3bike

Excellent coverage. When we merged, our CEO got all of us free care as long as we are working as part of the deal.

dalava

My point exactly! Until we think we are all Americans, not each as an American, we might be going somewhere. Politicians represent who we are; they are us, and we deserve what we get.

BikesAreCool123

.....

Monkey Face

Someone said if healthcare was all free it would encourage some of us to 'use' the system more - in some ways that's true - and arguably not a bad thing - for instance, where early diagnosis and treatment might actually save long-term costs (not to mention lives of course)...

...but I should have added that although our National Insurance provides for free healthcare, we still pay for prescription drugs, which are quite expensive. So abuse of the system in that way is not a big issue.

itsnotarace

Not really. The standard prescription charge is currently £7.20 and a lot of people get them for free too. In addition you can have any number of prescribed medicines (within reason obviously) on the same prescription and still only pay the standard £7.20 charge. I get 2 month's worth of hayfever tablets/nasal spray/eyedrops and a ventolin asthma inhaler each summer for £7.20

https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthc...tioncosts.aspx

RedWhiteandRed

I live in Canada. I am covered - fully. There is no undue wait, no issue and no compromise. If you show up at emergency and are able to wait you may experience some wait - but other than that everything is aces.

There are anecdotal tales of Canadians being sent to the US for care on occasion but the bills are paid by their province.

RedWhiteandRed

No, you are trying to suck and blow at the same time.

jzsoup

[QUOTE=dalava;10487538]For you to have what the Canucks have, three key elements must be part of the health care system:
1. it must be a single payer system (not necessarily government, but single payer, ask the Swiss how they did it and why)
2. it must be mandatory for all (to increase the risk pool. The healthy pays for the sick)
3. it must have a fixed price for any given service




I absolutely agree with this. Either everyone is in, or everyone is out. That's how to bring the costs down overall.

grolby

Wow, didn't take this thread very long to go off the rails. Let's count the crazy talking points!

1. National healthcare programs (whether fully nationalized, single-payer or simply the availability of publicly-administered plans) are socialist! National healthcare will take away your freedom! In fact, you might as well be making Josef Stalin your PCP. The fact that countries with some kind of public health coverage, whether fully nationalized (NHS in UK) or single-payer (Canada), spend far less on health care and that these programs are enormously popular with citizens is irrelevant.

2. Health and health outcomes are tied to morality, so that if you are doing something "irresponsible" (like daring to ride a bike when uninsured) and you get hurt, it's your fault and you deserve to be punished for it with lots of big, nasty bills. Of course, pretty much anything you do that results in injury can be constructed as "irresponsible" or somehow your fault or the result of moral failings. I mean, my uninsured girlfriend should have anticipated that a torn achilles tendon was a possible consequence of a pickup game of soccer with friends and not have tried to have some fun. She and her family deserve every bit of the thousands of dollars that they will owe in ER fees, treatment and rehab.

Of course, in reality, doing things that bring you pleasure is NOT a crime, and not a moral failure. People who aren't self-absorbed jerks understand this. Let's not forget that many of these "irresponsible" activities are unavoidable or required for day to day life, like riding a bike to work, or driving. Or doing some work around the house. LIFE IS DANGEROUS. Accidents happen. That's to say nothing of an extremely large proportion of the uninsured population: amoral scum who are uninsured because they had the nerve to develop or be born with a chronic health condition that insurance companies refuse to cover. How dare they presume to have a much a right to healthcare as upstanding moral citizens like khatful?

3. Healthcare is a commodity and should be distributed on the free market. Yes, buying treatment is like buying an HDTV. Just shop around, find out who offers the best service for the most competitive rates. Yay capitalism!

Of course, the market isn't actually like that. Health care isn't something you get because you want an upgrade, you get it because you need it. The number of providers are limited. Almost no one has any real control over the services they have access to, nor the rates. And in general, the whole idea of health care is to avoid serious problems that lead to big expenses. When something goes wrong you need it dealt with, period. When I hurt myself, I'm not shopping around, I'm going to the nearest damn ER I can find, if necessary. If I'm sick, I make an appointment with my doctor, who is one of a handful that are available to me under the terms of my employer-supplied health insurance plan.

Oh yeah, let's not forget that a big reason for worse health among the uninsured (you know, those moral failures that we talked about earlier with their poor lifestyle choices and what not) are not because of lack of availability of emergency care or lifestyle choices (you know, doing stuff that you don't approve of) but because of the lack of general and preventative care. This is not peanuts; it makes for enormous differences in long-term health outcomes and life expectancy. And on that note:

4. Health care is not a right. Need I say more? This one blows my mind, because I guess I'm just not prepared to handle that people are so ready and proud to declare that they are sadistic, self-righteous bastards, but there you go. People suck. No, of course; health care is a privilege, not a right, and if you don't have the bills to buy into that privilege, or are kept out because of pre-existing health conditions, you can go twist. Nice.

I'm astonished that anyone here thinks that riding a bike without health insurance is irresponsible and that any injury incurred from riding under those circumstances is deserved. Personally, I think the idea that I should stop riding (you know, to the grocery store or whatever) if I lose health insurance is outrageous and laughable. Only not so laughable. I wasn't making up that story about my girlfriend and her achilles tendon. Soccer, whatever; she didn't contact anyone, she stepped wrong and she didn't sprain her ankle, she tore her achilles tendon. If it can happen like that, it can happen stepping off a curb. I guess stepping off a curb is irresponsible. Shame on you.

Rober

I guess I lost you on my point. The plan we had was part of a compensation package. The employer picked up most of the cost of the plan, including almost all the deductible as a means of paying me. Now I pick up most of the deductible and the employer skates. So what if it's "pre-tax money" and that the scheme encourages me to "spend my money wisely?" Its my money now anyway. Frankly, I prefer being able to save my money in my own way. This employer-as-nanny scheme is a thinly disguised take-away wrapped in pretty "it's good for you" paper, Republican arguments to the contrary not withstanding.

monk

Employer-provided coverage, but in the last 10 years or so I've had to contribute $ to get coverage worth having . . . a trend across the country, I guess.

roccobike

I'm in favor of a Federal Government health care system. With this new system, we can lower the outrageous salaries of doctors and nurses so that only idiots will want to become healthcare professionals and our best and brightest students can focus on what we really need in the US,
MORE LAWYERS.
How else can we keep the runaway healthcare costs in check.

Kimmo 

Yeah, I've got healthcare; I pay tax and I'm Australian : p

That American 'system' is a barbaric scam.

dalava

Your logic, FAIL!

Have you ever been out of the country? If you ever do, make sure you don't get sick because you may have to deal with those "idiot" doctors in hospitals in UK and Canada.

Bo-Ridley

any injury incurred from riding under those circumstances is deserved.

Who is it on this forum that is claiming that. Deserved?

those moral failures that we talked about earlier with their poor lifestyle choices

In many cases that is exactly the case. Not always though.

I guess stepping off a curb is irresponsible

You aren't all that bright. That is called a mistake. Also, an accident. Going to a hardware store, buying a can of paint and huffing it is irresponsible. Are you, by any chance a freshman in college?