clink83

+1
This isn't racism or anything, but all the dominant Asian countries tend to have a history of taking innovations that were discovered in "western" worlds and refining them to be more effecient and cheap, and then do it better than we did. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's funny how people are bike snobs/alarmists when it comes to CF frames, but I think you would be suprised at how many of those "unsafe" or "cheap" CF are made by the same subcontractors who make the big name bike frames.

Psimet2001 

Having lived in Taiwan I can say that you are in fact incorrect.

umd

:facepalm:

gus6464

Wow that is one of the stupidest things I have read on BF in a long time. Go tell a Taiwanese that they are Chinese and see what happens. And yet some people wonder why the rest of the world think Americans are ignorant idiots.

guadzilla

Yet another logic fail.

Phantoj

fixed.

thegunner

and an idiot appears.

btw, if you're going to talk innovation... i think 'laying up' paper precedes 'laying up' carbon fiber

PurpleFender

How'd Sarah Palin get an account here?

thehammerdog

Must be nice to know so much....Goody for you..Please share some of your wizdom with us Tools

umd

Who are you talking to?

JoelS

I rode my generic carbon PedalForce today, and enjoyed myself on the ride. The climb was fun, as was the descent. Speed got cranked up on the flats and I spent time both in the draft and in the front. 45 miles was ridden. It was a good time. I'll continue to enjoy my generic carbon frame. I'll also enjoy my non-generic BMC Pro Machine.

Lenaxia

Boat rudder.
Compass.
Gun powder.
Silk.
Pottery and ceramics.
Glass.
Kites.
Mirrors.
Seisometers.
Abacus.
Saddle stirrups.
Hypodermic needle.
Alcoholic beverages
Forks
Paper currency

Need I say more?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_inventions

Fail at history.

[edit]

Oh I forgot to mention. I'm Taiwanese. And I can assure you that I wouldn't care if my 62cm Trek frame was built in Taiwan. I can also assure you Taiwan is as much a part of China as the US is part of Imperial Britain.

Quel

Hah. You must not visit this forum very often.

thegunner

on the contrary. it's just that dumb.

Flatballer

A wild idiot appears.

BF uses logic.

It's not very effective.

Idiot uses jingoism.

It's super effective!

BF has fainted.

Palomar01

No sir YOU are the one who is wrong, not only about CF but history and nationality. Mexico and the US? That's a terrible analogy. Mexico is filled with Mexicans. The US is filled with English speaking Mexicans! LOL! No seriously, Mexico and the US are as different as night and day. Taiwan however is filled with Chinese who speak the same language and has the same history.



Here is another tidbit of information for you. China builds military and commercial aircraft AND space vehicles. They know how to make CF. Boeing, EADS Airbus, GM, Ford, Chrysler, BMW, MB, etc., all have factories in China. Does Taiwan have any of these? No. My company just opened up an office in Shanghai (not Taipei) to start manufacturing Aluminum AND CF for their aerospace industry. For you to say Taiwan has the best CF builders is pushing the truth a bit. As for bicycle CF, the only reason why Taiwan has really good factories for it is because the Chinese are too busy using their CF for their aerospace manufacturing to waste any of their time and resources doing bicycles because they can just go to Taiwan, which they OWN, and get good CF frames. BTW the leading producers of Carbon Fiber is the United States and Japan, with US having 60% and Japan having 50%. The originators of Carbon Fiber material was done by the British, which shared it with the US for use in turbine engines. The US took it further by using it in military aircraft and now in many private and commercial airplanes. It was the US that created the first CF frames for bicycles, although manufacturing of this type of CF has indeed switched to Taiwan because it is less expensive to do it there.

Palomar01

Are you Taiwanese? No.

Taiwan, ROP = Republic of China.

Geezus, look it up and get over it. Officially, the definition is vague but by all intents and purposes, Taiwan cannot be seperated from China as China WILL GO TO WAR if that happens. So a status quo of "Don't ask don't tell" is maintained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

Palomar01

That's all you got? You are weak.

Read up on history and exotic materials first before you join the tea party okay gunny?

Palomar01

Their history is one and the same. Their economies are so mixed you can't seperate one from the other. I guess you're the history expert so believe what you want to believe.

thegunner

i'm glad you can read a joke. take your self less seriously, try not to be narrowminded 'k?

china will go to war if it happens, but that's just one side of the story isn't it? that would be why china is the people's republic, and taiwan is the republic of china. i guess you like omitting facts.

and here i thought the taiwanese people spoke taiwanese. my mistake. then again, i didn't realize having different languages was a requirement for national independence. I think someone forgot to mention that to south america. +i'm glad your company opened an office in shanghai, since it's the only one in the industry, that must spell the end for taiwanese CF.

i think this points to your ignorance rather than the homogeneity of their economies. then again... i just have a degree in east asian studies, what do i know?

umd

I think that this has become P&R

Palomar01

Ok I will try to take gunny's advice here and get civil. Psimet, I understand that you have a lot of knowledge about bicycles and bicycle manufacturers, materials, etc. I am not questioning your knowledge. If you've lived in Taiwan and you think you have personal insights on their culture and their manufacturing base, then that's good to know that it gives you additional insight in that industry.

Having said that, many who posted in this thread believes that Taiwan is THE premier CF manufacturer, especially when it comes to bicycle frames and that is just contrary to what is really going on. All of us has access to the greatest wealth of information out there and that's the internet. So I urge you guys to simply look it up and see for yourself which companies, which countries, CF comes from. Here is a good start: https://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

Have a nice day and ride safe.

roadiejorge 

Thanks for that Psimet, this was the one shining light in this big thread full of FAIL.

Palomar01

In my opinion, a degree in anything doesn't mean jack. A degree only means you went to school and passed the exams but in the REAL world, a degree just gets you an interview. It is your personal experience in the industry that really counts. Don't be so arrogant about having studied more than other people and start calling them ignorant.

Look outside your little box and see where the industry in composite materials is going. It's not going to Taiwan I can tell you that. CF is still very much centered around Japan and the US, but Europe and China also have a very healthy CF industry. Again, just look it up by using the good old Search function in your internet browser. It's that easy Professor. Investments by large congolomerates into Chinese manufacturing, especially in aerospace doesn't mean Taiwan is going away. I never said that. You said it. But actions speaks louder than words so since the vast majority of foreign investments into China for all kinds of things including CF only means they are more capable than Taiwan. That is what I implied in my previous posts and that certainly holds true.

spry

Opression never makes a good product Palomar.
Two different cultures,put the bong down.