Handonam

Hey all,

So i'm an inexperienced road cyclist who used to have a mountain bike when i was younger. I'm planning to get a bike from two LBS's in Santa Clara, CA:

https://calmarcycles.com/products/

https://offrampbikes.com/

Now i'm aiming for a bike under $700 (with professional fitting). I looked at the stickied forum thread on "Bikes under $700s", but i'm quite overwhelmed by the selections. I know i'm going to have to go out and try the bikes out, but I was wondering what i should avoid when finding a bike at a LBS? I just don't want to be stuck with a bike that the LBSs are just trying to get rid of.

I was really hoping i could get a frame that can offer me the best ability to swap for better components, but I'm guessing you guys will tell me to not overthink it. I just want to be able to get a decent bike that can be upgradable down the line.

guadzilla

Main thing to avoid is being rushed into buying a bike that doesnt fit too well or is designed for a type of riding that is different from what you want to do.

Monkey Face

Avoid pushy sale people. Trust your instincts - go to a few (more?) shops and find the one that you think you can trust more than the others... or one where you just like the people a bit more than the others. Ask about after-sales, first service (should be free) and any extras they might throw in or heavily discount, but only take a deal on that basis if you really NEED the added extras... helmet, shoes etc (as a newbie you probably do).

Until you really know what you're looking for, there's a lot to be said for the reassuring feeling that you went to the right people for your first bike... and knowing that if anything needs putting right, they'll do it for you.

Once you've done that, tell 'em what you want from your bike and go with what THEY recommend. Next time, you'll be more educated and you can make a more informed choice.

Handonam

alright, so i've only gone to those two LBSs, but their selections are VERY limited (especially for my ~52cm size). So, i haven't really been able to ride anything.

but looking through forums, i've found these that i seem to like for under $700 (as in, i like what i see on paper, but haven't ridden them yet)

-Tommaso Imola/ Capris / Monza
-Specialized Allez Steel (steel, but don't like the Downtube shifters, though)
-Jamis Ventura
-Jamis Satellite Sport (Steel, a + for me, but i'm a sucker of the looks on the ventura)
-Schwinn Fastback (sora)
-Felt F90(sora, and i don't even know if they're still in production)


My biggest concern is knowing WHAT constitute comfortability? From my perspective of guitar playing, I bought an acoustic guitar that i had no idea what comfort meant because i was still learning. Only until about a year later, i realized the guitar was too big, and that there were more comfortable guitars out there. It was almost unplayable, even after getting adjustments done. I guess that is my biggest worry. What makes it worse is that I might have to buy these bikes online.



And the biggest problem out of all: most of these bikes (or any) that are under $700 and in my size aren't found at LBSs.

BengeBoy 

As a former musician myself, let me say that's a good analogy. You should:

- do a bunch of research (sounds like you're doing that)
- find good local shop (sounds like you're trying)
- trust your instincts and pull the trigger.....

....but don't beat yourself up in a year if you find out you didn't do a good job predicting your riding style, or finding out you've "outgrown" your first purchase.

In other words, be careful, but there are no absolutely guarantees you'll nail it the first time around.

As stated above, just resist high pressure sales, and separate yourself from a shop that doesn't listen to what you want.

AngryScientist 

first off, whatever bike shop you use should pick the size of the bike if they dont have one in stock.

in that case - if it comes in and doesnt fit you - it's their fault and they should correct that.

with a bike in that price range and you being a newbie - you really want to "buy" the bike shop more than the bike.

find a shop you can trust, that seems like they are willing to work with you and help you through the first few hurdles.

bring a dozen doughnuts to the shop - talk everything over with the staff before you buy, tell them what your intentions are. they'll be more apt to listen and remember you with the sweet taste of doughnuts to wash it all down.

who doesnt like doughnuts??

Handonam

I've found these shops that carry the following:

-https://www.treadbikes.com/shop/brands (Jamis, Scott)
-https://www.ladolcevelo.com/bike.htm (Bianchi, Jamis)
-https://iminusd.com/ (Specialized, Fuji)
-https://www.sunbikeshop.com/products.html (Specialized Allez Triple (not steel))
-https://www.evolutionbikeshop.com/products.html (Specialized, Fuji)
-https://www.cupertinobikeshop.com/BikeLines.html (Felt, Specialized)

i had a schwinn somewhere in there.

I really wanted to find a place that has tommaso's, but i guess no luck . btw, the Felt's seem to have gone to F95's now. They are about $50 over budget, but i don't know if it's worth a look.


The thing i fear most is which one of these i would want to get, assuming that worst case scenario is that i get to try none of them before getting it sent to the shop. oh well

Lenaxia

Hey man, you're looking right in the area that I am as well. I pass by Cal Mar on my commute every day, and if something pops up I swing by. They are great people to work with and have always been helpful, even when I've swung by right when they were closing.

I avoided Offrampbikes because they are a pretty big chain, I don't like chains. Take that with a grain of salt.

If you're willing to go a bit out of your way, Palo Alto Bicycles is also a great place. They are much larger than Cal Mar and have a huge selection of bikes, whereas Cal Mar is pretty limited. They're also slightly cheaper (only $65 for a full fit versus $80 at Cal Mar). However I think both of them give complementary fits if you purchase a bike there. Plus I love the people at PA Bikes, and especially, if you can find Jeff there, he will find you the right bike, he lives and breathes biking, so if the bike doesn't fit you and your needs, he won't sell it to you.

If you're looking to buy a new bike, I'd recommend Palo Alto bikes as they are larger, and use Cal Mar as your LBS service shop. You can also check out Mike's Bike Shop as PA Bikes is mainly Trek/Cannondale and Mike's has more Specialized/Cannondales. Mike's service kinda sucks though...

La Dolce Velo is right by where I live and is a pretty hardcore bike shop. I don't go there often because they do a lot of focus on racing...

Sun bikes is nearby one of my group's weekend routes and its about the same size as Cal Mar, but it's staff isn't quite as friendly as Cal Mar is, partly because its only usually staffed by 1-2 people since it gets so little traffic.

My suggestion is that if you're looking at just getting a feel for things, buy a cheap bike for now that you don't plan on upgrading. Get a feel for that bike, then a couple years later, buy a better bike, thats around the $1300-1500 range.

On the flip side, basically anything can be made to work. A good fit can compensate for frames that are 1 size too small or too big, it won't be perfect, but it will still feel good. Beware of the brand sizings though, I ride a 60cm on Specialized but a 62cm on Treks, so it varies.

When it boils down to it, if you really want to try a size, any decent bike shop should be willing to order you a bike in that size for you to try. It may take a week or two but they can get it. Don't rush on purchasing, a few friends found that out the hard way.

PaulRivers

Whoa - you can actually buy smallers guitars? Not like "niche" smaller guitars, but regular smaller guitars? I'm serious - what do you ask for to get a smaller guitar? I'm 6"0, but always felt like my guitar was to big for me.

Back to bikes, your fear is very valid. Buying the right size bike frame is indeed the #1 concern when buying a new bike. I also bought a bike not quite knowing what I was doing. I rode it for years, and it worked for transportation, but I could never quite get comfortable on it. Finally I found out it was to large - it's been *much* easier to get comfortable on a slightly smaller frame.

The good news is that if you get the right size frame, you can make small adjustments later. You can buy a new stem (the part that connects the handlebars to the bike frame) that's longer or shorter, and you can slide the bike seat forward and back. Bad news is - those adjustments only go so far.

My usual advice is to call a bike shop and ask about a fitting. If they say they do fittings, ask who does them. If they say "anyone can do a fitting", thank them, hang up, and continue looking for a bike store. If they just have one person who does fittings, or for a larger store a couple of people, ask them who would be best and when that person would be in. Then go in and pay for a fitting - where I am it's like $35 for a basic fit that should tell you what size bike you need. THEN ride a bike they have that's that size so you can get a feel for how the right size bike feels. Be sure to write down the size they tell you as soon as they tell it to you.

Unfortunately, just to make things more complicated, there isn't exactly 1 number that will tell you bike "size". Between different manufacturers or even different models, the same "size" can be slightly different.

In general, if you stand with your feet on the ground over the bike and the top tube hits you...you know, between the legs, the bike is way to big for you. And if you're sitting on the seat pedalling, your leg should reach *almost* a full extension (but not quite) if the seat height is right. After that, it depends on your preferences for bikes - I suggest getting a bike where, when the seat height is right, the seat is about level with the handlebars. On some bikes, if the handlebars are far lower than the seat then the bike is to small - for other bikes that are racier, that's the norm - buuuuut it's not particularly comfortable without the right gear, amount of flexibility of your body (lots of people have to do stretches), and - uh, the right seat. Trust me on that last one, lol. It's just easier to get comfortable on a road bike when the bars are even with the seat, or at least not more than an inch of drop between the seat and the handlebars - in my opinion.

From my previous guitar shopping experience, trying to find a bike that's under $700 after tax is like trying to find a guitar for under $700...you can get crap, old stuff they want to get rid of, or you can pony up another one or two hundred dollars and get solidly into the midrange. Though having said that, Shimano did come out with a cheaper groupset last year below below the previous "decent" lowest end groupset called "2300" and some road bike have it - like here's a Specialized Allez near me for $700 (before taxes) -
https://www.eriksbikeshop.com/ride/pr...pf_id=PR3C6078

Another way to try to figure out sizing is to just go to the shop, ask them what size you should be riding, and take out a bike on each side of that size for a test ride (so like if they say 56cm, take out a 54cm, a 56cm, and a 58cm). I'd even do it, then come back on a different day and do it again.

There are a number of disadvantages to buying a bike online -
1. Obviously, you can't ride or size it before you purchase it
2. Cost might still be lower overall, but don't forget about shipping
3. From what I've read, they require some assembly when you get them - do you know how to do the "easy" stuff with assembling a bike? Your local bike shop isn't going to do it for free for you.
4. After a 100-200 miles, the cables stretch and need adjustment (initial break-in). From a local bike shop, they usually advertise that they'll do this for free if you bring it back to the shop after so many miles (though you'll want to ask what the exact conditions are for that, sometimes they're tricky). From an online place, you'll have to learn to do it yourself.

Regarding "upgrading" - don't hold your breath about the idea of upgrading your bike later. A lot of people have this idea, and it's understandable, but for the most part it's cheaper (though not always possible) to just buy the bike you want in the first place, because buying the parts to build up a bike can be more expensive than buying the entire bike. The only semi-economical way of doing it is to buy parts off ebay, then replace them all yourself. Which is cool, but even then the cost is....I feel like it's about equal. And you have to know what parts will work - further compounding the problem is that parts from one "speed" usually don't work with parts from another. So if your bike comes with 8 speed stuff (like the bike I linked to), you can't just throw a 10 speed derailler on there, you have to replace both the shifters, maybe the cables, the chain, both chainrings, and both deraillers. Apparently you can sometimes find older, higher end stuff on ebay that's the same speed to do the replacement with....haven't done it myself though.

Anyways...hope this helps!

tagaproject6

Avoid "settling" for a bike with the hopes of upgrading later, unless you have the patience.

Get fitted, narrow it down, sleep on it, decide, proceed to your favorite LBS after the decision, get money out of wallet, take picture of said bike while following BF protocol, ride the snot out of it...and post how you average 18 mph on the hills during your first 2 weeks

Handonam

Wow, fantastic advice here guys.

Yea, i'm very interested in having a stock bike that will last me for at least a year or two. By then, i should be able to make some money for major beneficial upgrades. I'm pretty handy with tearing apart and rebuilding stuff. Just gotta research into it. But yes, i agree that the parts may end up costing me another bike . I'll try my best to get hte right bike the first time.

That sizing difference does scare me. If i go around and ride a certain manufacturer that is available at a LBS, then it might be tricky to translate it to a diff manufacturer that doesn't have a bike available for me to test.

For my budget, i MAY push up to $800, but i need another week. I really don't want to end up spending over $1000 for bike+accessories.


so, would it be a good assumption that (after extensive fitting) i find any nice looking bike with tiagra shifters and a carbon and just pray to god that the bike fits me at this $700 price point? . I think finding steel frames at this pricepoint is kind of impossible. And i think tiagra shifters will at least get me away from poor sora shifters. i've seen some bikes with tiagra shifters under 700.

Comfortability can't change THAT much between bikes/manufacturers that fit for me, right? It should just be a matter of getting used to them?




Offtopic: Paulrivers - Yea, guitars do come in a slightly smaller size. Guitar Center typically sell "Dreadnaught" acoustic guitars, which is kinda dumb. That's what you prob have. They need to sell "Orchestra" or "Auditorium" models, which are smaller. Also known as fingerpicking guitars (NOT nylon). Examples ($ to $$$): Silvercreek T-170, Blueridge BR-160, Taylor GC, Martin OM or 000 models. Blues musicians like Eric Clapton generally use these for tonal reasons, but they are more comfortable.

PaulRivers

I wish you luck with finding Tiagra shifters at that price point - unless you find something used, or on discount from last year, it's pretty much impossible, in my experience. Or if you do find one with Tiagra shifters, they've cheaped way out on some other part of the bike - at that price point.

I'm really curious - what do you intend to use the bike for? Like, recreational riding...commuting? If you're going to leave it locked up anywhere, don't forget that getting a decent ulock is important (like $30).

Sora shifters actually aren't that bad at all except that you can't shift from the drops - and a lot of people don't use the drops anyways. I have a bike with Sora shifters and a Tiagra derailler (typical of Specialized bikes), and another bike with full Dura-Ace - and honestly, I don't know that there's much if any of a difference while shifting other than that on and aesthetic level, Dura-Ace "feels" smoother. They both seem to take the same amount of time to actually do the shift, and they both occasionally misshift.

As long as you have the right size and it doesn't have some truly bizarre geometry, you *should* be able to adjust to most other differences, yes. As I mentioned, there's a certain amount of adjustability you can do to where the handlebars and seat are.

But there's also not that much difference between different component groups at the "real road bike" level, which is the level you're looking at. I've several people other than myself say they own both can't tell the difference between Tiagra and Dura-Ace. Modern components at the level you're looking at just aren't very different. Apparently at one time there was a big difference - but not today. If you were buying a bike from Walmart, now THAT'S a big difference in component quality. I'd prefer to have lower components and a frame I know I'll like vs higher spec'd components and a less interesting frame to ride.

Sora shifters are going to be light years easier to shift with than downtube shifters, that's for sure.

I also want to mention that you don't necessarily need any sort of "extensive" fitting before you buy a bike - just a decent basic one to give you an idea what size. Like I mentioned, I'd try riding one size up and one size down and see which you like the best, paying attention to that other stuff about leg extension that I wrote. A lot of times if you buy a bike from a shop that did the fitting they'll credit your fitting cost towards the bike - you just don't want to let them know you want to buy a bike there until after the fit, or you risk that they'll tell you that whatever they have in stock will fit you.


Offtopic: Thanks for the info on guitars. I technically didn't buy mine at guitar center, but I'm sure it's still one of the huge ones...I'll have to keep that in mind if I buy a new one. :-)

tagaproject6

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Sora shifters.

Handonam

I'm going to initially ride it just as a means for my cardio workout days (every other day), but i'm also leaving room for it to be a way to commute to school. I've been wanting a bike to go on recreational rides here in northern california. One of the things i've really wanted to do was take my road bike to Angel Island in San Francisco (after getting used to it, of course).

I tried asking to see if i could get fitted the first time, and they charge about $60. But, that was from one of the places above, and they don't have a large selection of things they carry (mostly just specialized, and the other just Giants and Raleigh). So, i might go get fitted at a place that carries other bikes. Should there be certain manufacturers to aim for, and certain ones to avoid? I think that might be the one thing i want to worry about before i find a place to pay for fitting.

scirocco

Frame size and fit is everything. Don't worry too much about the components. I'd recommend avoiding the situation where the LBS has only one size that seems about right, and finds excuses not to let you ride a size up or down. They are just trying to clear that particular frame and may not particularly care that it may not be the optimum size for you.

How do you tell it's not optimum for you? Not easy without experience. But if you have a long legs/short torso build, you should tend to a smaller size than might be indicated by your height alone. A LBS that knows what it's doing will know this as well, but they aren't all competent and remember they all have stock to clear.

96WX3

FWIW I just got my first road bike last Friday. I did a lot of reading like you, and went to a lot of shops. Then I went back to the places I liked and started riding bikes. At first I could not even tell the difference between AL and Carbon. I think I had so much to take in as it was all new to me I didn't notice some of the differences. After more and more test rides, I started to notice little differences here and there. So my advice would be to do a bunch of rides and as you get more and more miles on you will find a bike that "just feels right".

I actually liked two bikes nearly the same, but I went with the local shop brand as I was also shopping for a good LBS. This one was the closest and was the most helpful. Being completely new I wanted a place I could stop in and ask the "stupid questions", get advice, etc.

I also was going to spend less for my first bike, then upgrade later. But the more I looked I decided to just buy what I wanted now. I still need a professional fit, but so far even without that I am 95% sure I picked the right bike.

PaulRivers

If you're riding it to school, make sure to get a good ulock. Cable locks are cut way to easy. If you're not leaving it locked up outside, an entry level ($30-$40) ulock should be good enough, though it often depends on what the crime rate is at your particular school.

Bike manufacturers generally just make frames, then they all use the same components (usually Shimano) at the same price point. As long as you're not buying a Walmart brand or something like that, I wouldn't particularly worry about avoiding any brand that your local bike shop would carry.

Handonam

I just got to try out a few.

I tried out the Felt F95, and it had the Microshift on there, which is pretty cool. But, I dont know if it's any better than what is standard on bikes right now. I can get used to either of them i think, but is there an advantage to the Microshift?

I also tried the Specialized Allez Sport Triple, which looks really nice. Both of them have a rear Tiagra shifter.

However, i only rode them around in the parking lot, which was probably not the best way to test them. I have to go back and test them again.

I did get to try out a Bianchi Via Nirone 7 2300. https://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/coas...7-2300-triple/. It was really uncomfortable on the bumpy roads i test rode on. I compared it with another bike that had a carbon tail, and that felt so much better. Too bad that carbon-tailed bike was $1600


i'm really feeling the F95 though at Evolution Bike Shop. I'd have to spend $800 on it, but i'm going to see if i can negotiate something to bring it down. They are waiting on new shipments for 2011 next month, so maybe i can get a good deal around then




As far as the sizes, i think i'm more comfortable with a smaller frame like a 52. I think my hands develop a lot of pressure on a 54, but i also want to be able to lean in some. And goodness, i probably need a new seat and pants. I hope those reduce a ton of road vibration over a stock seat.

bjh000

For what it's worth, I have the felt f95 and really enjoy it. It has microshift brifters and tiagra/sora setup that's stock. I don't really think there is much for pros or cons on the microshift, but it works perfectly for me. It's a little "clicky" but very precise.

PaulRivers

If you're concentrating on comfort, one other thing you should when you test ride bikes is pump the tires all up to the same pressure. I run my road bike tires at 95psi myself.

With less pressure, the ride will be nicer, but feel slower. With more pressure, the ride will feel faster and zippier, but you'll feel every bump in the pavement a lot more.

A new seat and new biking shorts won't significantly reduce "a ton" of vibration you feel while riding the bike. In fact, regarding vibration they won't make much of a difference at all.

If you want to see how good a road bike can get in reducing vibration, try test riding a full carbon Specialized Roubaix (the $2200 or so model). There are some techniques to riding that let us ride road bikes in relative comfort (like standing on the pedals a little when going over something bigger in the road), but if you're looking for something that's more easily comfortable, you'll need a bike with a much larger tire.

Ziltoid

Personnaly I'd avoid sora shifters, I can't hit the thumb lever to shift while in the drops, which drives me nuts.

Handonam

Would you guys recommend getting a display bike for a bargain?

PaulRivers

The biggest thing to avoid here is buying a bike that's the wrong size or that's "not quite the right size, but I can make it work" because it's "such a good deal".

I'm probably just repeating myself or other people in the thread, but that would be my #1 concern.

noise boy

+1, I have had them on my CAAD9 for a year now, and they shift fine.

noise boy

+1 on this as well.