cooleric1234

I read the recent Titanium ride quality thread with great interest as I'm considering a Ti bike for my next purchase. In that thread it was re-iterated that geometry matters most. Well, I've got the option between a Ti and a Carbon bike that have similar geometry and the same wheels.

First off, my info/goals:

• I'm a near-Clyde: 6'5" and 190 lbs
• I don't race, just want a bike that will do well on long rides (a few centuries), in the mountains of CO, and on an occassional commute
• I like to go as fast as possible. I would say I don't want discomfort to cut a long ride short, but other than that going faster is more enjoyable.

The bikes (I have bought from BD before, I'm aware of the pitfalls, the only one I care about now is not being able to test ride these):

Motobecane Le Champion CF Rival


Motobecane Le Champion Ti Heat


I LOVE the look of the Ti, but I want something that will meet my needs. The weights on these bikes are similar. I'll be getting a compact crank for the CF if I get that one. I'd also get the red one, which I think looks nicer.

datlas 

How long do you plan to keep the bike (frame)??

If the answer is less than 5 years, get the carbon.

If more than 5 years, get the Ti.

cooleric1234

Good point. I tend to get upgrade fever, so there are certain disadvantages to getting a bike that will last a long time. On the other hand, it's nice to upgrade when you WANT to, not HAVE to. If I get the Ti then I could eventually upgrade to a carbon and move the Ti to commuter duty, which is currently a really cheap, crappy bike. I'm leaning to the Ti. I guess the question is if the Ti will be comfortable enough for long rides? That sounds stupid asking it now, of course it should be. Just because it may not be quite as good as the carbon it won't be prohibitively uncomfortable.

coasting 

i'm pretty sure my unbranded ti bike is the same as that BD Ti. i really like it, but like i said in the ride quality thread it isn't as smooth as carbon. It's not harsh but it doesnt absorb all the bump. it is springy on those bumps.

As for wanting to do long rides on it, on saturday i rode 106 miles on it over 7.30 hours ride time. I had zero discomfort from riding it that long in terms of aches and pains during or after. I had plenty of pain from tired muscles, mind you!

BikingGrad80

Between those two I'd go with the Ti, I think it is actually .5 pounds lighter than the carbon Le Champ.

I was looking at the MB Le Champ too but decided I'd prefer the Immortal Force.

merlinextraligh

You've got to ride them to really know, but all else being equal, the Ti bike is likely to be a bit more flexy than the CF bike, but it's also likely to be more comfortable on a long ride. There is a reason that people refer to the magic carpet ride of Titanium.

Not exactly apples to apples but I have a Ti Merlin Extralight, and a CF Giant TCR Team Advanced SL. The Merlin is a substantially more comfortable ride, and the bike I'll typically use for Centuries.

AngryScientist 

get the Ti bike. Ti rules.

teterider

Blah on the geometry. I'm guessing your looking at 59cm in Ti, or 61cm in carbon. They are within 0.5 cm of each for top tube so they are comparable. However, the Ti is a 73.5/73.5. This is probably horrible for you unless you have stubby legs for your height. At that seat tube angle, you will likely need one of the harder to find far setback posts like the 35mm k-force and even then perhaps the saddle will be slammed back. The 73.5 headtube was at least paired with a 43mm fork - the steering will be somewhat twitchy steering especially with your higher center of gravity.
However, the carbon matches a 73.5 headtube with a 45mm fork for stupidly twitchy steering for you (my opinion, you may like it). But it does have a 73 degree seat tube to better get you behind the BB. A 73/43 steering setup is more ideal.

Anyway, both look good otherwise, but you can't change geometry.

If you look at other Ti builders, you will find that the larger sizes have a 73 or 72.5 degree seat tube angle. I'm 6'2", and my 57cm Lemond even has a very much needed 72.5 seat tube. I mean really, the 73.5 seat tube on the largest sized Motobecane Ti is from an ignorant product designer. On the other hand, the 53 and 56cm sizes are pretty well balanced.

merlinextraligh

Hadn't thought about the sizing, but do you think either of these bikes are going to fit you? My Merlin is 59cm, with 58.5 top tube, and I'm 6'1"

59cm Frame could be a bit small for you depending on your proportions, the amount of drop from seat to bar you like, etc.

Shimagnolo

fify

cooleric1234

Yeah, they'll both fit. I'm an odd duck when it comes to sizing. I bought my first BD bike in a 64 cm frame thinking that FOR SURE at my height I'd need the largest available. Well, I think I'm all neck or something, after a bike fit and much riding I've found I'm most comfortable with about a 590-595 cm effective top tube, which I think is right in the range of both those bikes. Now, the angles are another issue, that I don't fully understand, good points on that teterider.

cooleric1234

My inseam without shoes is around 36.2", for what it's worth.

tuxbailey

+1

rjones28 

I would go with the Ti.

cooleric1234

Is the main disadvantage to a steep seat tube angle just the amount of setback I will need? I mean, does it influence ride quality other than that? Just trying to understand.

My road bike now, which is too big, has a 74 degree head tube angle (I think a 43 mm rake). But the seat tube is like 72.5 degrees. It's a traditional geometry. Does the fact that this is semi-compact change any of that? I think I do have short legs (and arms) for my height. It was a bummer on the volleyball and basketball courts. I had a friend who was 6'1" who could reach an inch higher than me.

echappist

it has to be said:

T-i is fly

later

v70cat

After five years the Carbon turns to dust?
Or does carbon dating bring you to that bogus comment?

Creatre

Titanium for sure.

JaceK

Get both, can never have too many cycles.

Ti is great for long cruises,

The correct carbon is great for fast rides, short trips, or playing around.

Carbon is more complex than just frame geometery, you need to take into account the weave, grade, build, etc.

patentcad

Ti.

thegooddoctor

The carbon bike will end up in the landfill. The titanium bike can be yours or someone elses for life, then another life ....on and on. Unless you are getting paid a lot of money to shave seconds off your race times, carbon bikes are best left for rich people who go to the LBS whenever the bike starts to CREEEEEEAK.

patentcad

I have the Motobecane Ti MTB bike. It totally and utterly rocks.



Ti.

v70cat

But you ride a Scott & Cervelo made of carbon

Paul Y.

Ti. I've only ridden titanium and steel so... It's an awesome feel you get from the
road.

Rocket-Sauce 

As a fellow Clyde at 6'04" and 210, I was steered away from Ti as it supposedly would be too noodly at the BB for me. I don't know about that, but the CF bike does look like it has a much beefy-er BB area.