muraii

Hi, folks,

I've been reading on and off for a little while, though only diligently in the last couple of days. I commute just under 5.5 miles each way, two or three times a week. I'd really like to go every day, weather permitting or not, but I think I would like to invest in a good bike to do that.

Currently, I'm riding an 80's-era Windsor 10-speed, though I'm not sure which model. The shifters are down low on the frame. It's serviceable, but I'm currently sporting a plastic milk cart on the nice rack, secured with zip ties, and a probably original seat that doesn't do much for my sit bones.

I've thought of potentially upgrading the bike with a few items, e.g., a better saddle and potentially a 3-chain-ring setup, and removing the foam from the handlebar and taping. The saddle isn't problematic; newer models should fit fine. And the foam and tape stuff, of course, isn't an issue. My primary questions at this point are the following:

• Is it possible to upgrade the chain ring to provide more gears, and does this result in a faster bike?
• Is it wise to pay for these admittedly modest upgrades rather than saving for a newer bike?

I don't have much of a budget; I paid $80 for this bike on CL and put another $90 or so into a couple of tune-ups. While I'd like to hit that US$700 entry-level point, I just don't think it's in the budget. I might could scrape together US$300 for a used bike (I've been looking on eBay and CL, though the latter hasn't yielded much [in the Cincinnati area]).

My uses will fall into these categories:

• Daily commute, ~11 miles round-trip, over hills and not-horrible paved Cincinnati streets (even in moderate winter weather)
• Plans to bike longer distances, again on the road and typically around Cincinnati, but even out in the country and armed with a DSLR
• Eventual plans to get up to century rides (e.g., Cincinnati to Columbus)

I realize my current bike, even with modifications, won't do much for that last agenda item, but that's probably a bit off anyway. I enjoy the modesty of a hacked-together commuter, but I'd like to plan for an upgrade sometime in the next six months.

All that said, if upgrading isn't advisable, are there quality budget-conscious models to consider? I looked at the Specialized Allez Steel, sold at a LBS for under US$600, and while it's outside my budget, I'm considering that they might be on sale soon. I'm not sure, for instance, if it's really critical for me to ensure Tiagra components over the oft-hated Sora set (I imagine my current derailleur group is laughably inferior to even the Sora). I've also browsed the Jamis Ventura Sport, which looks nice as well. I have a few eBay auctions I'm watching, but just for research purposes at this point.

If you've made it this far, thanks for humoring me.

Cheers,

Daniel

redvespablur

If the frame is great its probably worth upgrading. If its not then I would not put money into upgrading the components beyond maintenance. If the frame is a keeper - and if its steel it can be spread out at rear to take modern wheelset and cassette - your options on upgrading our endless.

I have a mid-80s Specialized Allez that I put 9 speed campy drivetrain and Mavic Open Pros - and it its fast and comfortable. All in about 120 for frame and 500.00 for the drive train and wheelset. This is more than you wanted to spend but if the frame is good then look for good used wheelset and build from there

Homebrew01

Changing a few parts does not make a bike faster. Stronger legs makes a bike faster.

Do you need more gears ? Putting a triple crankset on is usually done to tackle tough, steep hills by giving you lower (easier) gears than you would get from a double crankset.
Are you having to walk up the tough hills near you ? If yes, then a triple, or bigger cogs in back, may help.

ls0725

I would rather be patient and save for that new entry level bike in the future. the problem with upgrading a used bike that was not yours initially is you do not know the extent of parts/labor cost to be shelved out. you mentioned triple chain ring, have you considered that you might also be changing the bottom bracket, crank arms, front derailler, shifter, etc? what about the specific tools needed for the task? if you will have the LBS do it, how much more for labor? Anything to do with the drive train equates to money and more money

The $80.00 used CL bike you bought ended up costing more just to have it road worthy. Lesson should be learned there.

muraii

To my untrained eyes, the frame is in fine shape. I appreciate its craftsmanship if nothing else; weld joints are not visible as on other bikes I've seen, but rather have decorative "caps" at the joints. I realize that's not structural, but does seem to imply an attention to quality.

The thing I'm considering--which Is0725 touches on--is that I'm not quite handy myself yet, and so the LBS would be performing the really critical upgrades. Someday soon, I intend to at least get some basics under my belt, both for my own edification and to provide an example for my kids. But that day's not here just yet.

Thanks for the reply. That's more than I wanted to spend, but it seems that it's less outside feasibility than I'd thought.

musicmaster

What he means is if the frame is good. Stiff enough, comfortable for you etc. New innovations like carbon forks etc do help with comfort on newer bikes.

muraii

I understand, and I'll tell you that there are a few parts of my commute where I equal or pass cars. But I'm tapped out, spinning crazily in 10th gear, and I'd like to have a couple more to put my legs to work. I understand that swapping some parts out doesn't make a better cycler of me, anymore than buying platinum taps makes me a better dancer; but you probably wouldn't race a fixie no matter how strong your legs are.

Actually, I'm fine with the climbs. I take a ~2-mile constant hill with a 2-3-degree slope in my commute, which sounds puny but which I take on in gears 2-1 or 2-2. I suppose, now that I think of it, it's not more rings or gears, but a wider range that I'd like. I'm okay on the lower gears, but it'd be nice to have a higher gear ratio to get some speed. Which, of course, requires those stronger legs.

'ppreciate the quick and useful feedback.

muraii

Definitely can't go wrong with patience.

I paid that $90 or so--and maybe not quite that much--over the course of the last couple of years. The first $40-$45 was just to get it tuned up just after purchase. The second was only recently, to true the wheels and replace the chain. But, yeah, I understand your point, and is a component of my decision process: after all is done upgrading, could I have found a used bike with better performance, for roughly the same money, and then used that, perhaps, as a starting point?

I guess that's what I'll do. Thanks for the feedback.

zstjohn

I wouldn't upgrade a commuter. If you want another bike just save and get another. But maybe i think of commuter as something i wouldn't mind trashing or getting stolen. been thinking about riding my trashy mountain bike to work cause i've invested enough in my bike that i feel like commuting on it on the horrible roads i ride isn't worth it

muraii

Yeah, it feels strong, and I hit a few stretches of rough road. I'm not uncomfortable, except perhaps in the saddle and in that I don't think the gear range really suits how I'd like to ride. One thing, though, is that--stiff and comfortable as the frame is--it also feels kinda sluggish. It doesn't feel too heavy to lift, though. Perhaps what I need to do, just as a reference point, is ride some bikes similar to what I'd go for (lower-end Specialized Allez and its categorical ilk), and feel just how much difference that class of frame and equipment does or doesn't make.

ls0725

Yes, just keep on searching. A lot of times getting that good used bike (if you go that way) has a lot to do with right timing and pure luck.

muraii

Yeah, I've got a few in my Watched Items list on eBay. This Bianchi and this Windsor, for instance, look like good choices to me. 58cm is probably on the big end for me (I'm 5'10.5"); I think I'll look primarily at the 54s.

...and if I could score this Specialized, I think I'd be set. Looking for frames with brazons for a rear rack, of course.

noise boy

Just a suggestion, it is probably worth it to go to competitive cyclists website and use their fit calculator to work out your sizing. You input the measurements and they give you three options for fit Competitive, The Eddy Fit, and French Fit and descriptions of the differences. https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...LCULATOR_INTRO

As to the original questions, I am with some of the others on that, keep what you have functional, and save your bucks for a more modern second bike.

Homebrew01

You may be able to get a wider range freewheel for the back. For example if yours is a 14-28 tooth range, you may be able to find a 12-28 or 13-28. I'm assuming you have a freewheel, but cassettes started coming out in the late 80's. Either way, basic models start around $30, with bargains to be found. You just have to make sure you get one compatible to your bike.

joe_5700

At your height (which is the same as mine), I would try a 56cm frame. I wouldn't invest anything more into the commuter. I would keep your eyes open on CL or Ebay. Keep in mind though that you will have an expense for tune ups etc. for these bikes too. I have a Jamis Ventura Sport and for the money they are excellent bikes. The one upgrade you may want to do with it in the future is adding a carbon fork. Some other entry level bikes to consider are:

Bianchi Via Nirone 2300
Felt Z100
Scott Speedster S50

garage sale GT

You could get some pedals and learn to spin i.e. use higher rpms for speed. The pedals could be transferred to a new bike; the threads are still the same. Pedals with foot retention will let you use more rpms. These days they think 90 rpm is about optimal.

Most 80s road bikes had 52 tooth big rings and I tend to doubt you need bigger, though, unless you have something unusual in back. If you did get a triple crank, you'd get lower gears but not higher. If you don't already have a 52 tooth large ring, you could probably easily find one to fit your crank.

You could get a 13-28 freewheel but I don't think they often go smaller than 13t. However, I strongly doubt you could really need more gears than a 52-13, and you won't get them anyway without something custom. (well, you could get a cassette rear wheel which let you get an 11t small sprocket.) Your rpms should be around 90; they should be around 120 before you think of sinking major bucks on a custom crankset.

Wal-Mart saddles for MTBs are my favorite modification for old '80s road bikes. They are a bit wider than the ass-hatchets some bikes come with.

muraii

Thank you for the tip. That's a pretty sophisticated calculator; I'll see if I can't get some measuring help tomorrow.

Well, it shouldn't be surprising that this is the advice I'd hoped for, except for budgetary reasons. The old Windsor frame, while sturdy, feels fairly heavy, and the svelte lines of even the lower-end of the quality bikes make me think their rides are really enjoyable.

muraii

I'm watching several on eBay, just to gauge the market. CL is very no-hit in Cincinnati thus far, though in a couple of months that might change. We've taken my wife's Global (Specialized) in for first-year (free) tune-ups, and of course these are no less machines than our cars, so you only get out of 'em what you put into them.

The Jamis has/had Sora components on it. I hear little but complaint, even vitriol, about the Sora. I'm sure there are threads on the forum here, but are they sufficient for you, or have you already changed 'em?

muraii

I hadn't really thought about the engineering angle, but I'm learning (mostly today) that the fancy pedals and shoes have that benefit. Impressive, really.

I'm talking about the principal feature of my commute, a 1.7-mile 3.18-grade hill. I know its five lights well enough that I don't hit them, and occasionally I pass cars and metro buses on the way down. The rpms are manageable (don't know the rate), but there's enough energy that I feel like one more, slightly higher-gear-ratio option would be nice to kick into. Big chain ring's 52t, small rear is 14t (counted twice). Seems I have all the range I need, then.

garage sale GT

I like mountain pedals because you can walk in the shoes. A pair came with my new Bianchi road bike & it has no cyclocross or off-road features at all.

They do make (or once made) freewheels with 13t top cogs. Whether you'd rather upgrade the old bike is a different story. New bikes will have a totally incompatible system.

muraii

Thanks everyone for your helpful notes. Paying a little closer attention to the downhill this morning, I'm not so sure I've got the extra oomph I thought I had, and I have lots of room to grow into on the flats. I'll consign myself to riding a heavier, maybe clunkier, older bike with the idea that when I upgrade to a nicer ride, I'll feel a nice boost.

joe_5700

The 2200/Sora have been more than sufficient. A lot of people have venom against 2200/2300/Sora shifters because the rear derailleur is a thumb shift for shifting to a smaller cog. The compaints arise that you cannot shift from the drops. All you have to simply do is take one hand out of the drops and make your shifts while the other remains in the drops. Pretty simple. My Felt is all 105, and it does shift nicer, but my Jamis is just as capable of a bike.

AngryScientist 

i didnt read the whole thread admittedly, but one thing that is worth it for sure is the new saddle if you dont like the one you have. spend a few bucks on a good saddle and it will be with you for years, and on any future bike you may or may not buy. i put a good and comfortable saddle on ANY bike i ride, its a must.

MKahrl

Post some pics of the frame with your questions on the Classic and Vintage forum. The knowledgable folks there will be able to access how good your Windsor is, as some were quite good. The "decorative caps" you mention are lugs and they are still used to join tubes on high end steel bikes to this day.

Even if you decide to save up for a new modern bike if you have the room for two bikes a steel bike is still a good choice for commuting. They are usually easier to mount racks and fenders and they have better clearances for both fenders and the larger diameter tires favored by commuters.

Seattle Forrest

I think $35 or so will get you a wider range cassette than you have now, although I'm not very mechanically inclined, and I don't know much about your current bike. But gearing is easy to change, in and of itself.

Carbon forks can help with comfort on old bikes, too. It's harder ( but not impossible! ) to find a carbon fork if you have disc brakes, but that's probably not the case here. Also, saddles can be hugely uncomfortable, or downright plush. With the OP's concerns, a saddle would be a better investment than a carbon fork ... but both are likely possible.

To the OP - Don't go test ride other bikes. I made that mistake a couple of months ago, and now I have two bikes. My old one seemed like a very good ride, until I learned what I was missing.