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benefits of tubular tires

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benefits of tubular tires

Old 08-30-10, 05:40 PM
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benefits of tubular tires

hey so i personally have never ridden on tubular tires, so i was wondering what the benefits of them were. to me they look like more of a pain to put on, but it seems like a lot of the really nice wheels are tubulars.
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Old 08-30-10, 05:46 PM
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Lighter. Slightly better handling/ride.

Way more hassle than they are worth, unless you are racing competitively.

Use search for details ad nauseum.
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Old 08-30-10, 05:48 PM
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For the same size tire, it puts more distance between the rim and the road.
No snakebite flats.
When you do get a flat, the tire stays on the rim.
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Old 08-30-10, 05:49 PM
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Calling ciocc_cat. Come in. Your soap box awaits.

Again.

Geez...
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Old 08-30-10, 06:05 PM
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For me the benefits are:

a) lighter
b) easier to control/ride on when flat
c) less tempting to use my race wheels for training
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Old 08-30-10, 06:07 PM
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Point "C" is a superb one.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by umd
c) less tempting to use my race wheels for training
Ha! That's a new one...I haven't heard that one yet.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter
Point "C" is a superb one.
I thought they were all superb points
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Old 08-30-10, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by umd
For me the benefits are:

a) lighter
b) easier to control/ride on when flat
c) less tempting to use my race wheels for training
I should know this, but what hoops do you have for race day?
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Old 08-30-10, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by umd
For me the benefits are:

a) lighter
b) easier to control/ride on when flat
c) less tempting to use my race wheels for training
In a race situation (b) is the most important. I've had to deal with abrupt tire decompression with clinchers at 30 mph and it ain't pretty. With tubulars it is much more graceful. That allows you to get out of the pack without causing carnage and also ride for a while on a flat tire without destroying a wheel.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:10 PM
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MUCH lighter wheels. Far fewer flats in training and racing. I'd say half as many flats. Two reasons: no pinch flats, and if you ride tubulars with higher tire pressures (I pump mine to 140-160 lbs) it's harder for stuff to work its way into the tire to cause a puncture. But they are mostly a pain compared to clinchers.

I ride and race on both. On my TT bike, I can get the bike down to <17 lbs with the 404 tubulars. That's really nice when you're on a TT with rolling hills.

If you can afford and have both kinds of wheels it is kind of nice to go back and forth. I train on the tubulars sometimes. My best friend likes tubulars so much (he trains on them exclusively) that he just sold his last pair of clinchers. But he doesn't put in so many miles.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
I should know this, but what hoops do you have for race day?
Well I had a pair of Reynolds DV46Ts. Now I only have a rear
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Old 08-30-10, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Lighter.
Slightly...then again, wheel weight only matters when the going gets REALLY steep.


Originally Posted by datlas
Slightly better handling/ride.
Not really. You need to compare like constructed tires/tubes.


Originally Posted by datlas
Way more hassle than they are worth, unless you are racing competitively.
I agree with the first part of the statement above, but would amend the second part to "unless you are a pro rider with a follow vehicle and a full time mechanic"

One other thing to consider, especially if TTs are your thing, is that tests have shown that unless the tubulars are glued on with what most would consider massive amounts of glue (as in 2-3 tubes of glue PER TIRE) then for equivalently constructed tires and using the same tube materials, the tubulars will actually have appreciably higher rolling resistance.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ahsposo
Calling ciocc_cat. Come in. Your soap box awaits.

Again.

Geez...
Why thank you, brother ahsphoso! However, you may be disappointed with my response . . .

If I were buying a bike today, I'd go with lightweight clinchers. I still ride sew-ups because in the 1980s (when I was still club racing) clincher performance wasn't was where it is today. I don't race anymore, but I also don't feel like building up a new set of clincher wheels (my wheel building skills are rather rusty) so I ride el-cheapo 300 gram Servizio Corse "training tubulars". They roll fast and smooth and I haven't had any flats since I mounted them last year.

That's why I ride them. The advantages/benefits of sew-ups have already been discussed by others in this thread.

Edit: I should add that I have NO intention of buying a new bike. My Ciocc is still more than enough bike for me even after almost 25 years.

Last edited by ciocc_cat; 08-30-10 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo
For the same size tire, it puts more distance between the rim and the road.
That doesn't make any sense. Think about the relationship of the braking sidewalls and the tire to the road.


Originally Posted by Shimagnolo
No snakebite flats.
Huh...tell that to the guys that were around when the term "snakebite flat" was coined. Here's a hint...they were repairing tubular tires at the time...


Originally Posted by Shimagnolo
When you do get a flat, the tire stays on the rim.
That's interesting...my clinchers stay on the rim too on the rare occasion that I flat.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by umd
I thought they were all superb points
Well that one was more superb.

Originally Posted by tanhalt
........

That's interesting...my clinchers stay on the rim too on the rare occasion that I flat.
You can ride a flat sew-up whereas riding a flat clincher is nigh impossible.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tanhalt
That's interesting...my clinchers stay on the rim too on the rare occasion that I flat.
I have never had a tubular blow off/"unglue off" a rim and I have over 100K miles ridden on them, but I have had several clinchers do that. In each case I was lucky that the tire blown off the rim didn't "gum up the works" and keep the wheels from spinning. Each time I was going 28+ mph. And each time was very sketchy.

Needless to say I feel much safer on properly glued tubulars than clinchers. There is a considerable inconvenience factor and a considerable cost factor, but they are safer if properly glued.
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Old 08-30-10, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter

You can ride a flat sew-up whereas riding a flat clincher is nigh impossible.
Really?...I'll have to remember that the next time I'm riding on a flat clincher and it's not coming off the rim...or when my friend keeps going down a 1 mile twisty decent and then another mile to his house on a flat clincher just because he's too lazy to stop and fix it...

Despite what many believe, a flat on a clincher does not necessarily result in an instant "yard sale".
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Old 08-30-10, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mollusk

Needless to say I feel much safer on properly glued tubulars than clinchers. There is a considerable inconvenience factor and a considerable cost factor, but they are safer if properly glued.
That's interesting...mostly because it's well known that Miguel Indurain rode clincher wheels in the Alps during the Tour. Why? Because he didn't want to risk rolling a tubular when the glue heated up and softened from braking...
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Old 08-30-10, 06:53 PM
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Having a spare in a colored sock strapped under your seat looks way cooler than a funky little bag.
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Old 08-30-10, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Lighter. Slightly better handling/ride.

Way more hassle than they are worth, unless you are racing competitively.

Use search for details ad nauseum.
"Back in the day", I used to be pretty proficient at tubular repairs. I had a Velox sew-up repair kit with patches, needle and thread. I found fixing flats to be good "relaxation therapy" (when accompanied by beer). Patched tires were always relegated to training/club ride spares.
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Old 08-30-10, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tanhalt
Really?...I'll have to remember that the next time I'm riding on a flat clincher and it's not coming off the rim...or when my friend keeps going down a 1 mile twisty decent and then another mile to his house on a flat clincher just because he's too lazy to stop and fix it...

Despite what many believe, a flat on a clincher does not necessarily result in an instant "yard sale".
I was doing 30mph around my favorite tight, banked curve the other day and encountered 2.5" rocks scattered all over the pavement.
I avoided them with the front wheel, but the back wheel hit one, instantly flatting the rear tire with a snakebite.
The tire immediately came halfway off the rim, so I was going around the curve with all the weight at the rear on the bare bead of the rim grinding/sliding all over the pavement.
Color me skeptical on your story.
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Old 08-30-10, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tanhalt
That's interesting...mostly because it's well known that Miguel Indurain rode clincher wheels in the Alps during the Tour. Why? Because he didn't want to risk rolling a tubular when the glue heated up and softened from braking...
My understanding is he rode a front clincher, rear tubular. But I may be wrong. Weight more important in the back, security up front. He must not have trusted his mechanic or something.

Originally Posted by umd
For me the benefits are:

a) lighter
b) easier to control/ride on when flat
c) less tempting to use my race wheels for training
Definitely A, much much lighter. If I could get a super durable clincher tire where the very durable aero 60 mm wheels weighed under 1300 grams, the tires were 250g with tube, and the whole rig cost under $1000/pr wheels and $160/pr tires/tubes, I'd do it.

B. No longer true on the super wide rims (HED Stinger 6 for example). This was a disappointment since I didn't realize it until I glued them up. But I love this clip so I'll post it again:


You can't do that on a clincher. No way, no how.

cdr
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Old 08-30-10, 08:38 PM
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Air pressure is *so* over-rated.
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Old 08-30-10, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tanhalt
Slightly...then again, wheel weight only matters when the going gets REALLY steep.




Not really. You need to compare like constructed tires/tubes.


.
Get on GP4000 tubs and then the clincher version. Use very similar rims (reflex in my case) -- then come back and report. Have you ever done this? I have and do still and the tubs are better., no contest.
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