Menel

Happened to be in my LBS today, asked about a bike build I'm planning for next year if performance bonus is decent.

Was leaning toward SRAM Force, and he informed me that it was discontinued. That Rival was basically the same thing... ???

Mansram01

Tell me it ain't so! And no, it's not the same thing.... One is carbon and the other not!

sqharaway

First I've heard of this... Most of the reviews of the 2010 SRAM groups equated Force and Red, with the exception of the rear zero-loss of Red. Maybe Rival will get a carbon makeover?

Eclectus

I could see it. Red, ultralight. Force too close to Red. Rival much cheaper. If economics forced one line to be dropped, which one would it be? You can't drop Red, TdF sweeper. Rival is Utegra/Chorus competitive, and for less money. Plus SRAM came out with Apex. Maybe SRAM guys decided one of their products was expendable. If you disagree, get Campy or Shimzo, and email SRAM to tell them you chose another brand. They will figure it out.

Bluechip

I doubt Force will be gone in 2011. It just had a retooling for 2010 so it needs to be out there for another couple of years before they would abandon it completely. I could see it gone in a couple of years instead of redesigning it again. I sure hope not at least. I am seriously considering Force on my next bike.

FlashBazbo

The SRAM KoolAid flows! (You were trying to be serious, weren't you?)

I've owned both and Rival really doesn't measure up. It's not junk . . . but it doesn't compare to Ultegra -- even old Ultegra.

Eclectus

Well, there you have it. My LBS was trying to sell me Rival. I didn't want to go with third-tier, I went out-of-town and got Red. I was at a stage in my life where I could afford SR, DA, Red. I went for Red, on a hunch, and I loved it. Nice gear! Of course, with an MSRP frame, and Red sold at-cost $1100, it was saying "Try me!" But if it were crap, I would have demanded a refund, and up-priced to get something that worked great. But Red was great, so I kept it.

pcfxer

Umm, I have Rival and it is definitely Carbon. Glad you got the Red!

LOL, I just thought for one second there...my shifters are carbon...that is all ouch. I see what you mean, shifters are CF else it is 6061 Al and such.

roy5000x2

The only part about Rival that is carbon are the shift levers, and those aren't even 100% carbon IIRC. I have both Rival and Force (2010). The only reason that both my bikes aren't Rival is that I needed bb30 for my second bike, and got a good deal on the Force group. Yeah I could have saved a little bit if I bought just the Force bb30 and Rival everything else. But Force really is that bridge up to Red. It gives you a taste of what Red is like, just a couple hundred bucks cheaper.

I'm also in the group that says Rival is in the same range as Ultegra (can't commend on Chorus since I've never used it). The Rival doesn't feel as precise as Ultegra, but it feels and works better than 105 IMO.

adriano 

hes another shop fool.

gus6464

Gotta love the people that keep comparing Rival to Ultegra. Weight is not everything and Rival will never shift as smooth as 6700. I like SRAM as much as the next guy but some people have to start laying off the koolaid.

logdrum

I have the older all alloy Rival. I like those and wouldn't mind getting another set. Makes my Ti-bike a bit pedestrian with less/no carbon. As someone who came directly from 8 speed Campy Record/Chorus ergo to the 10 speed era, the ultegra Trek 2300 that I had briefly, I never connected with the Shimano system at all. No koolaid for me as I got SRAM before I registered here in BF. My LBS was the one who turned me on to it amd my 6700 experience made the decision easy.

I have the Red SRAM but I do not miss a lot when I am riding my Rival which is 80% of the time.

guadzilla

You may not prefer it, but that doesnt mean they dont compare. They do. I'd rather have Rival than Ultegra myself.

As for "never shifting as smoothly" - dont care about smooth. I like the Rival's more solid thunk and it shifts fast enough for me - certainly, Ultegra does not shift any faster than Rival.

I can see preferring one over the other - that's fine. But just because you choose strawberry instead of chocolate doesnt mean the two are not equivalent.

roadwarrior

LMAO...ummm, all this idiot has to do is look at the 2011 offerings to see if Force is offered...like the 2011 Madone 6.5 for example.

I also do love the people that criticize component groups they don't own or have little to no experience riding.

ThinLine

Aside from some titanium bits and more carbon, Rival is like Force. Mechanics are identical.

If Shimano would drop a line, I would say drop Ultegra. 105 is NOT far from it and then a understandable jump to Dura-Ace.

jdon

Oh goodie. Another Shimano vs SRAM thread.

sqharaway

Why on earth would anyone want to look at the 2011 Madone 6.5?!

tagaproject6

:

FlashBazbo

So, you would see no problem with saying, "Sora is equivalent to Red" or "Apex and Super Record are equivalent and only a matter of preference."?

Sorry, but there ARE meaningful differences. Otherwise, we would all just buy the lightest thing out there, and/or the cheapest -- oops, I just restated the SRAM KoolAid mantra!

guadzilla

^^ Forget it. I dont work for SRAM and couldnt give a toss about convincing you. I've made my point, you've made yours, you think you are right, I KNOW that I am - anything after this is going to be simple repetition.

Back to topic - unlikely.

ThinLine

Love where this going..............how about a Shimano Alivio rear derailure is on par with Shimano Dura-Ace w/ the yukezuma package.

deepakvrao

Vandit,

Rode a SRAM bike today [very short and really to try handlebar width], and I 'wanted' to like it, but I found the shifting force required was more than Shimano. Dont know whether tis is because of concealed cabling [reputedly the new Ultegra also requires more force]. Yes, the shifting is more noticeable than Shimano, and I dont mind that at all.

However, need a longer ride to really decide whether I dislike SRAM.

guadzilla

Deepak, that's fine - some people prefer the ergonomics and handling of one, others prefer the ergonomics of the other.

No one - atleast, not me - is saying that Rival is definitively or objectively better.

But enough people *prefer* Rival to Ultegra (I like the snappier shifting, zero loss and lighter weight, personally) that putting the two at approx the same level is a valid comparison (unlike, say Sora vs Red strawman set up earlier) and saying that the 2 groups are comparable isnt "drinking the Kool aid".

Some people are assuming their personal preferences are the only arbiter of how the groups match up. That's what I was disagreeing with. Couldnt care less whether someone likes Rival or Ultegra more.

V.

deepakvrao

Like I said. I want to like the SRAM. Cheaper and lighter, and I like that brake is not related to shifting. Will ride Doc Bhateja's bike for a longer ride when I get 'upgradeitis'. Rushi had a fantastic new BMC with the new Ultegra. Will ride that too.

Do you find that the shifting requires more force in SRAM than Shimano?

Rob P.

I don't. I have ridden all 3 shifting types. They all take about the same effort to move the derailleurs.

My preferences: If I want smooth with ergonomics and bling, I'll buy Campy. NOTHING shifts as smoothly and there are decades of engineering and refinements on that. Smooth = Campagnolo.

If I want to shift "right now" regardless of whether I'm pushing hard instead of coasting or without backing off on the pedal pressure, I'll buy SRAM. Hit the lever and "KLUNK!" it's in the next gear. Every time. The only limit is that it's a double-chainring-only system up front.

Finally, if I want what everyone else has I'll buy Shimano. It has lousy ergonomics (for my hands) and is engineered for a finite lifespan even if it just sits in the garage. Failure rates are high and for some reason Shimano stuff likes to derail on the front chainrings to the point that there are now aftermaket "dogs" to help prevent it. However, it shifts and it's shiney and comes on just about every std model bike out there. Without Shimano components we'd still be in the dark ages with downtube shifters, cogged cranksets, and 5 speed freewheels on 27 inch rims.

In the end, it comes down to buy what you want.