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  1. #126
    Nerd hurley.girl's Avatar
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    I think a lot of people seem to vastly underestimate the danger of traveling in car.

  2. #127
    Typical Scum brianbeech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance89 View Post
    You're actually in IN and you're talking about a rare nut case story in KY stopping you from cycling? You got into a crash because you hit a tree while riding your mtb and your fear is now projecting the pain from that injury to a car hitting you?

    This is completely irrational, but it had to take some effort to bring all this together like you did, so well done.
    That rare nut case story in KY is actually close to my riding area. Yes, after facing paralysis and death from a cycling accident, I'm reevaluating all my cyc...you know, I'll just let you go back to about page 3 to read the connection. But yes, this is close to my riding area and it was just another story to make me question how distracted driving and bad people are dangerous for cycling. I know it doesn't make sense, but recovering from this injury gives me plenty of time to make illogical arguments and unfounded fears.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianbeech View Post
    That rare nut case story in KY is actually close to my riding area. Yes, after facing paralysis and death from a cycling accident, I'm reevaluating all my cyc...you know, I'll just let you go back to about page 3 to read the connection. But yes, this is close to my riding area and it was just another story to make me question how distracted driving and bad people are dangerous for cycling. I know it doesn't make sense, but recovering from this injury gives me plenty of time to make illogical arguments and unfounded fears.
    Maybe I missed someone saying this but get counseling. Your fear is not rational now. Sure you had a bad experience but you are generalizing now to other areas. Cycling is fun because it has adventure and adventure means taking some chances. That's what we as human beings thrive on. You need to get the fun back into your life
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  4. #129
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    ^^ true.

    Sounds like you're having difficulty mentally getting over this injury. You're starting to remind me of Ricky Bobby.

    Look at it this way, your chances of something happening are realistically low. The chances of something happening twice is even lower. It's already happened, so you should be in the clear!

  5. #130
    Senior Member wens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurley.girl View Post
    I think a lot of people seem to vastly underestimate the danger of traveling in car.
    Perception of risk doesn't necessarily match risk well.
    Do you think we're gonna make it? / I don't know unless we try \ you could sit here scared to move / or we could take them by surprise

  6. #131
    Here to Learn SwingBlade's Avatar
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    Instead of constantly engaging in the rationalization of safety issues, cyclists might do better to engage in lobbying. There are cities and counties that have tremendous cycling path systems and high emphasis on cycling safety on at least a few roadways. But, other than lip service, most cities and counties have zero emphasis on cycling safety.

    The simple fact is that road cycling safety will erode every year for the next thirty years due to the aging population and decline of roadway infrastructures. This means that a typical road that is relatively safe today will be measurably less safe in ten years and even less so in twenty years. The time to start addressing these issues is already past. Adopting a public macho persona may sound good and may be libido enhancing for many, but the fact remains that our young children and nieces and nephews who start riding seriously in ten or 15 years are the ones who may pay the piper for the nonchalance of the current generations of active riders.

    Yes, cars, showers, and stairways are inherently unsafe. I had a co-worker die six years ago attempting to descend a concrete public stairway in Tokyo. But, what does any of that have to do with the relatively unsafe to very unsafe conditions that road cyclist encounter everyday? Are the engineers responsible for the increasingly safe design of autos, roads, showers, and stairways supposed to blow their consumer's concerns off because cycling is dangerous too? There is no logic in any of these statements.

    Road cycling is the only sporting endeavor that consistently puts 160 pound riders on 15 pound bikes in close proximity to 4,000 pound cars often driven by distracted texting teenagers or aging individuals with questionable skill levels and reaction times.

    I shower, therefore I also ride in traffic? Mocking anyone who attempts to legitimately raise questions regarding the inherently unsafe nature of road cycling is a tremendous disservice to all who ride now or will ride in the future. But hey, nobody ever said being a macho man was easy.
    "There are no extraordinary men ... just extraordinary circumstances that ordinary men are forced to deal with." - William "Bull" Halsey

  7. #132
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwingBlade View Post
    Road cycling is the only sporting endeavor that consistently puts 160 pound riders on 15 pound bikes in close proximity to 4,000 pound cars often driven by distracted texting teenagers or aging individuals with questionable skill levels and reaction times.
    Hmmm, I see walkers, joggers, skateboarders, razer scooter riders, little 2-stroke scooter riders, etc. in the same environment all the time.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Olde Western Auto Cruiser.

  8. #133
    Senior Member BikeNSail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorthanded View Post
    hrm. i guess i've known a lot of people who became parents and gave up on the things they loved because they thought they put undue strain on something-- their spouse, their job, their life, or their kids. MOST of them that i know have supplanted these things with too much TV, or with buying stuff. not many of them seem particularly happy about it.

    i know you're thinking for the long term benefit of your family-- but i'd urge you to think about your own stress relief, exersize, and just plain fun-- because being a wound up dad and husband without good outlets isn't really any more benefit to your family! if you love it, and take a reasonable amount of care-- i would think there's far more benefit than potential risk. i won't say it's riskless.. i've been in bad wrecks-- but i'm much more careful NOW than i was when i was 16 (when i last had a bad wreck... um 23 years ago, knock on wood).

    stats are scary-- but contrast them with the non-existent stats for ungratified parents and anti depressant use .. in all seriousness-- don't get psyched out by that, do what you love, and just be smart. yep drivers suck.. so find ways to avoid the worst best you can!
    now this is good advice!

  9. #134
    Still can't climb
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    he has an irrational fear. using logic to cure an irrational fear is funny. you guys crack me up.

    the only way to conquer an irrational fear is to force yourself to do it like getting back onto a horse when you fall off. i can see the point of going through hell to conquer a fear that causes debilitating interferance to going about normal life, but for a hobby that he may not even have an all consuming passion for is unnecessary. I say op does whatever makes him feel comfortable.
    coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer

  10. #135
    Senior Member stevegor's Avatar
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    It is not unusual to have "irrational" thoughts after a major accident, when you're in pain, self doubt and weighing up values in your life, just don't rush into any hasty decisions . Take time to heal and work things out in your head.

    I've been there BIG TIME, nearly lost my mind... and everything else. If you feel down talk to somebody, be it a counsellor, your wife, friends or the cat, don't bottle it up.
    I'm lame,
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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Road cycling is the only sporting endeavor that consistently puts 160 pound riders on 15 pound bikes in close proximity to 4,000 pound cars often driven by distracted texting teenagers or aging individuals with questionable skill levels and reaction times.
    Hmmm, I see walkers, joggers, skateboarders, razer scooter riders, little 2-stroke scooter riders, etc. in the same environment all the time.
    Not to mention motorcycles which are doing 70 mph at the same time with traffic.
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  12. #137
    Here to Learn SwingBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
    Hmmm, I see walkers, joggers, skateboarders, razer scooter riders, little 2-stroke scooter riders, etc. in the same environment all the time.
    Your comments just seem like more rationalization and misrepresentation of relative risk issues. Walkers and joggers have sidewalks, green beltways, and barring those options, the preferred ability to walk or run opposing traffic which gives them the ability to better perceive oncoming traffic dangers. None of these options are available to cyclists. I've been a skateboarder for literally my entire life and, no, very few if any skateboarders ride on the street pavement on highways or the types of non-commercial or non-residential roads that road cyclist have to deal with routinely.

    The issues are not just about roadways and drivers. For example, the cycling community does zero training of riders on the 13 visual illusions that can cause a cyclist or a driver to misjudge the relative danger or proximity to danger under various scenarios.

    Much can be done to enhance cycling safety in terms of roadway infrastructure and operator training, but I guess the Tea Party slogan of "man up" is an acceptable alternative to some. However, that exhibits all the survivalist skills of an ostrich and benefits no one, especially the ostrich.
    "There are no extraordinary men ... just extraordinary circumstances that ordinary men are forced to deal with." - William "Bull" Halsey

  13. #138
    Despite all my rage, I am rooftest's Avatar
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    You almost killed yourself mountain biking, so you want to sell your road bike, huh?

    I say do it! One less dickhead on your local MUPs...

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by rooftest View Post
    You almost killed yourself mountain biking, so you want to sell your road bike, huh?

    I say do it! One less dickhead on your local MUPs...
    Ouch.

  15. #140
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  16. #141
    Senior Member LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
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    Swing said: Road cycling is the only sporting endeavor that consistently puts 160 pound riders on 15 pound bikes in close proximity to 4,000 pound cars often driven by distracted texting teenagers or aging individuals with questionable skill levels and reaction times.
    I said: Hmmm, I see walkers, joggers, skateboarders, razer scooter riders, little 2-stroke scooter riders, etc. in the same environment all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by SwingBlade View Post
    Your comments just seem like more rationalization and misrepresentation of relative risk issues. Walkers and joggers have sidewalks, green beltways, and barring those options, the preferred ability to walk or run opposing traffic which gives them the ability to better perceive oncoming traffic dangers. None of these options are available to cyclists. I've been a skateboarder for literally my entire life and, no, very few if any skateboarders ride on the street pavement on highways or the types of non-commercial or non-residential roads that road cyclist have to deal with routinely.
    I can agree that on average, walkers, joggers and skaters spend more time in more protected areas than road cyclists. However, in my neighborhood, on the average day, I see far more walkers than cyclists on the streets or sidewalks and I typically see about as many joggers in the bike lanes as cyclists so road cycling is NOT the "only sporting endeavor that consistently puts 160 pound [participants] in close proximity to 4,000 pound cars often driven by distracted texting teenagers or aging individuals with questionable skill levels and reaction times."

    When I was younger I spent more time skating in off-road environments, but nowadays I do more skating in bike lanes or sidewalks than I do in pools, parks or ramps. Of course, more of my cycling and skating these days would be considered transportation rather than "sporting endeavor" these days as well. I kinda see it as both transportation and sport.

    (We need a moment to look at definitions here. Do I have to enter skateboard races for my skates around town to be considered sport? Do serious cyclists on the road have to be entered in the occasional race for what they do to be considered sport? Do walkers have to be entered into races for what they do to be considered sport, perhaps a volkswalk type event would count?)

    In my perception many of the walkers and skaters I see are also doing so for transportation purposes but most of the joggers I'd say are engaging in a "sporting endeavor." You could be right that if they are running contra-flow they are safer. I know many mirror proponents say that riding without one is only for those with a death wish. Perhaps riding with a mirror is about as good as running contra-flow in that aspect.

    Maybe if I read what you said as "the only sporting endeavor that consistently puts a majority of its participants in close proximity to cars" then I'd be in complete agreement but like I said, I see as many joggers out on the roads as road cyclists so in my area jogging definitely consistently puts people out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingBlade View Post
    The issues are not just about roadways and drivers. For example, the cycling community does zero training of riders on the 13 visual illusions that can cause a cyclist or a driver to misjudge the relative danger or proximity to danger under various scenarios.
    I agree with this. In fact I'd say that some groups of road cyclists sometimes almost seem to encourage unsafe behaviors. I see group ride stragglers run reds to keep up all the time. My last ride on a popular roadie route put me behind a couple of dudes that rolled through almost every 4-way stop we hit, a couple even had very limited sight lines - not a good idea.

    There are a few MUPs to choose from, but they're mostly poorly designed for road cycling. Not that that stops folks from doing training rides on them.
    Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 11-14-10 at 05:43 AM.
    1980ish Free Spirit Sunbird fixed * 1996 Mongoose IBOC Zero-G * 1997 KHS Comp * 1990-ish Scapin * Olde Western Auto Cruiser.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryfeender View Post
    Wouldn't it be more fun to go out doing something you love than sitting on your ass rotting away at age 80? Do what you love, if it kills you somehow, thats a fantastic ending to life.
    No. If I have to go related to cycling, maybe after a big breakfast in my favorite chair having just completed a century birthday ride. At the hands of an inattentive or drunk driver, No.

    Mitigate your risks by picking acceptable routes, govern your own behavior and enjoy your rides. It is also your responsibility to look after your family so do whatever it takes to do that.

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