BAL

I have been riding Zipp 404 clinchers with Al braking surfaces successfully for over a year or about 3,000 miles. I don't race and I do all of my riding solo for fitness; therefore, the aero function of the Zipps is not needed. Given my weight of around 210 lbs. I am sure a prudent recommendation would have been to save some money and get wheels with more spokes than the 16/20 of the Zipps. But, the Zipps looked great on my Serotta Ottrott so I got them.

So, I plan to order a set of custom wheels with at least a 24/28 spoke count. I have been pleased with the ride characteristics of the Zipps and the only complaint I have is some flex causing brake pad rub when I am pushing up a hill. While I know the ride characteristics of the custom wheel build will depend upon the actual components selected and they will be selected for my weight and riding style, can anyone comment on what I may or may not notice about the difference in ride characteristics between the Zipps and the custom wheels?

My average ride is 30 miles at about 18 mph with longer rides on the weekends.

Should I be concerned the higher spoke count wheels will make for a more harsh ride than the low spoke count Zipps? If I go with Al rims and the higher spoke count will I expect a harsher ride than the Zipps? Will carbon rims at the higher spoke count dampen the ride as compared to Al rims at the higher spoke count?

Right now the Zipps are riding just fine for me; but, I am ready to try another wheel set and from the various discussions on this forum it seems like the custom build is the way to go with a higher spoke count. I would just like to have an idea of the "change" in ride characteristic I should expect as compared to what I now have.

Garfield Cat

If you can afford a Serotta bike and Zipp wheels, then heck, get the custom builds that might be a tad bit stiffer and try them. I bet that custom build will end up half the price you paid for the Zipps. Keep both and be happy.

datlas 

Wow most of us wish we had this "problem."

Talk to Rob/Psimet. I suspect the quality of the ride will be even better than your ZIPPs.

I supsect the only downside is slightly less aero but this is really only an issue if you are (a) riding competitively and (b) riding at high speeds of say 25+MPH and it sounds like neither of these apply.

clx1

Sounds like a backward step to me!

sstorkel

I haven't ridden Zipps, so I can't comment there. I do have a number of different aluminum wheelsets, however: 16/20-spoke Neuvation M28 Aero2, 24/28-spoke Easton EA90 SL, and a custom PowerTap wheelset from Psimet (24-spoke Kinlin XR-270 front, 28-spoke XR-300 rear). The Neuvation wheelset is actually the most comfortable to ride, probably due to the increased flex. Between the EA90 and Psimet Kinlin wheelset, the Eastons seem just a shade more comfortable. I suspect this is mostly due to the higher-profile Kinlin rims being stiffer.

Grambo

I have a set of Zipp 404 clinchers which have been hanging in my basement for over a year now with zero miles .... they are over rated and with the standard low spoke count they have way too much flex for a heavier rider (I weigh 185lbs). The key is a higher spoke count. I have a set of Edge 45 clinchers in a 24 / 28 spoke count and the ride characterisctics are night and day. The Edge 45s are so much better that my Zipps will never be ridden again (soon to be for sale on Ebay). To be fair my guess is a custom set of Zipps with a higher spoke count would likely have a vastly improved performance for heavier riders over the stock factory low spoke count wheels but the marketing gurus belive low spoke counts sell. If you weigh over 200lbs I can't imagine how much energy transfer you are loosing with standard Zipps .... do yourself a favor and use a higher spoke count. The weight difference is minimal. At 210lbs you might want to even go beyond 24 / 28.

Blackdays

Didn't read your post.

If you're fat, get custom made wheels. If you aren't, get the Zipps and be the cat's meow at your Saturday morning group rides.

vantassell

I don't get why people do this...

jdon

This would be a good option for the OP. Good post.

jdon

Away at school without parental supervision.

BAL

As the OP on this thread, I appreciate "most" of the comments. In particular, it seems like I just need to order a set of custom wheels with the higher spoke count and then report back to the forum my real world experience comparing the low spoke count Zipps to the higher spoke count wheels. After receiving these comments and reviewing a good number of posting on the subject of wheels, it appears many aspects of wheel selection are not dissimilar to the selection of a saddle. It comes down to a matter of opinion and what suits each individual rider.

alpha_bravo

Since they appear to be well within your means, why not just pick up a set of 404 MAX clinchers? Higher spoke count front and rear (24 I believe) and built for heavier riders. Sell the old ones on e-bay or on here and it will probably be cheaper than having a new set built form scratch.

ericm979

At 210 lbs I'd go for 28/32 spoke wheels, if you don't want to be doing wheel maintenance. It sounds like you don't need aero wheels for your riding. But I would recommend "aero" aluminum rims like KinLin XR300 or Velocity deep V. They'll make sturdier wheels than low profile rims like Mavic Open Pros.

A set of XR300s on White Industries hubs would make for a very nice set of training wheels. I've been very pleased with the White hubs I have on my racing wheels.

merlinextraligh

I have a set of Zipp 404 clinchers, and am about the OP's size. In my experience, 404's are not that flexible. I can make the rear brake rub hammering out of the saddle uphill, but that's about it.

The simple answer for that is to flip the QR lever open in those situations.Problem solved.

As for the ride difference, between 404's and a good set of aluminum rimmed, non deep dish wheels, I think you'll find the ride on the custom nuilt wheels to be a bit smoother. Low spoke count wheels compensate for low spoke count with stiffer rims, and the Zipp rims that are 58mm with an aluminum brake track and tire bead are pretty stiff, giving a somewhat rough ride compared to conventional wheels.

Also you can build up a lighter wheel without a deep sectioned rim, which will feel faster accelerating, than the rather heavy, but aero, Zipps.

Blackdays

Correct.

Hermes

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAL

I have been riding Zipp 404 clinchers with Al braking surfaces successfully for over a year or about 3,000 miles.

It sounds like you are happy with the 404s except for the hills and I agree with you that the deeper section carbon wheels look great. Due to your weight, I thought you were going to complain about spoke breakage or true problems. Rubbing of the brake pads may be a simple adjustment problem. Does it happen while seated, standing or both while climbing?

I own Easton EC 90 58 mm carbon tubies and they are very stiff, do not rub the brake pads even during out of the saddle sprinting but do give a harsher ride than my Williams System 30s. There are great for racing.

Here are some 58 mm full carbon clinchers by Williams with a 20/24 spoking and a weight limitation of 225 pounds. https://www.williamscycling.com/58cc/58cc.html

Zipp makes a 404 max (they used to call these Clydesdales) which have 24/24 spokes and are rated for 275 pounds. I tested an old set of Zipp 404 Clydes. That is all the shop had for a Zipp demo at the time. They were heavy and felt slow when climbing. I tested some of the Bontrager 60 mm carbon wheels and at that time thought they were too heavy. YMMV.

I do not think that custom wheels with a higher spoke count is the way to go per se. IMO, more spokes result in a heavier less aero wheel that does not look as good, is less fun to ride and takes more power to turn. I think rim depth, spoke count and stiffness are similar to Goldilock's porridge - not to hot not to cold just right!

Finally, most shops around here have demo wheels. I test rode a lot of wheels before buying. I strongly recommend your own independent due diligence before buying another set of wheels.

logdrum

^ 8 spokes made that much difference in weight? Are you sure they were not old 440's with 404 stickers?

logdrum

I have a vintage Zipps with Pilar titanium spokes 32 hole. It is hard to believe that they are Zipps. They are however tough. And not that heavy. Maybe because they have the older puny hubs. I must not be that heavy because they have not broken yet considering they are late 90's Zipps.

Hermes

No, I am not sure but it was a credible shop.

I forgot to add these to OPs wish list. https://www.lightweight.info/index.php?id=25&L=1 They would look great with his Serotta Ottrott.