What bike mfgs actually make their own frames
12-23-10, 07:31 AM
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What bike mfgs actually make their own frames
I don't mean 'make' in the sense of 'design', I would assume most do that. I mean, of the larger companies (not Sam's Bikes), are there any that actually make the frames themselves or do most outsource this to other shops that specialize in that?
The troll post yesterday made me think. If I'm buying an Italian bike that is made in Asia and all the components are made in Asia, is it simply the geometry and the assembly that is 'Italian'? Surely there are 'knockoff' Asian bikes of the same quality but much much cheaper. Note, "same quality".
Am I way off base?
The troll post yesterday made me think. If I'm buying an Italian bike that is made in Asia and all the components are made in Asia, is it simply the geometry and the assembly that is 'Italian'? Surely there are 'knockoff' Asian bikes of the same quality but much much cheaper. Note, "same quality".
Am I way off base?
12-23-10, 07:39 AM
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Gaint, Merida and Kinesis do most cookie cutter CF and aluminum frames for themselves and others.
Many others do make their own steel frames like my Cinelli
Many others do make their own steel frames like my Cinelli
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Last edited by rufvelo; 12-23-10 at 07:51 AM.
12-23-10, 07:45 AM
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Peloton Shelter Dog
Trek makes their own high end Madone frames, no?
12-23-10, 08:04 AM
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This really is a lot tougher question than you think.
My point is where do you draw the line?
These factories don't make the carbon or resins. They most likely don't make the molds or the equipment used to manufacture the frames. They may or may not make the alloy sleeves, inserts or dropouts.
They do the layup of the frame but they may even source forks from a specialty vendor.
So if all we are really talking about is making the decisions about all of the above mentioned items, developing the concept and design of the frame, then what we are quibbling about is who owns the factory the frames are molded in? If a company has their own guy there overseeing production and doing QC the only thing he isn't doing is writing the cheque for the hands performing the actual labour.
I'm not saying that your question isn't legitimate, I am merely pointing out that it needs to be refined a little to be answerable.
So the short answer is: Very Few.
My point is where do you draw the line?
These factories don't make the carbon or resins. They most likely don't make the molds or the equipment used to manufacture the frames. They may or may not make the alloy sleeves, inserts or dropouts.
They do the layup of the frame but they may even source forks from a specialty vendor.
So if all we are really talking about is making the decisions about all of the above mentioned items, developing the concept and design of the frame, then what we are quibbling about is who owns the factory the frames are molded in? If a company has their own guy there overseeing production and doing QC the only thing he isn't doing is writing the cheque for the hands performing the actual labour.
I'm not saying that your question isn't legitimate, I am merely pointing out that it needs to be refined a little to be answerable.
So the short answer is: Very Few.
12-23-10, 08:04 AM
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Only the 6 series, and I think even some of the lower end 6 series aren't anymore.
12-23-10, 08:10 AM
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i make my own bike. i bought the frames and components and i screwed them together and fine tuned the adjustments and there it was, a complete bike.
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12-23-10, 08:15 AM
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This really is a lot tougher question than you think.
My point is where do you draw the line?
These factories don't make the carbon or resins. They most likely don't make the molds or the equipment used to manufacture the frames. They may or may not make the alloy sleeves, inserts or dropouts.
They do the layup of the frame but they may even source forks from a specialty vendor.
So if all we are really talking about is making the decisions about all of the above mentioned items, developing the concept and design of the frame, then what we are quibbling about is who owns the factory the frames are molded in? If a company has their own guy there overseeing production and doing QC the only thing he isn't doing is writing the cheque for the hands performing the actual labour.
I'm not saying that your question isn't legitimate, I am merely pointing out that it needs to be refined a little to be answerable.
So the short answer is: Very Few.
My point is where do you draw the line?
These factories don't make the carbon or resins. They most likely don't make the molds or the equipment used to manufacture the frames. They may or may not make the alloy sleeves, inserts or dropouts.
They do the layup of the frame but they may even source forks from a specialty vendor.
So if all we are really talking about is making the decisions about all of the above mentioned items, developing the concept and design of the frame, then what we are quibbling about is who owns the factory the frames are molded in? If a company has their own guy there overseeing production and doing QC the only thing he isn't doing is writing the cheque for the hands performing the actual labour.
I'm not saying that your question isn't legitimate, I am merely pointing out that it needs to be refined a little to be answerable.
So the short answer is: Very Few.
As far as size of the shop, I dunno, how about an mfg that has multiple shops across states carrying their bikes in stock.
12-23-10, 08:25 AM
#10
Senior Member
Litespeed, Lynskey. I don't know how you quantify "large manufacturer" but I think within their market they can be considered large.
How about Look and Time?
How about Look and Time?
12-23-10, 08:26 AM
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I was more curious about actually making the frame, not the frame materials. I realize there aren't any bike mfgs that create their own tubing and/or whatever is needed for CF. I just mean the actual welding of steel/alum frames (and whatever processing needs to be done to CF to actually make the frame out of the raw materials). I suppose asking that question of CF is more detailed than I'm aware, so let's stick with metals.
As far as size of the shop, I dunno, how about an mfg that has multiple shops across states carrying their bikes in stock.
As far as size of the shop, I dunno, how about an mfg that has multiple shops across states carrying their bikes in stock.
What has more value to you: An independent builder who buys off the shelf, name brand tubes? Or a larger factory that actually trucks ingots in one door, processes the alloys and uses the tubes to make their frames?
In the first instance you are talking about the frame design and the skill of the welder (I once had a Wes Mandaric. He used a really nice Japanese pinpoint TIG welder and made these tiny, uber precise welds on the Columbus tubing he used for my frame. Fricken beautiful. I loved that frame). On the other hand you are talking about the actual manufacturing of the tubing and then the frame design and the skill of the welder.
Not much different really.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time it's just that, as I said, it is a far tougher question in reality than you may realize.
12-23-10, 08:33 AM
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Really it's not all that different.
What has more value to you: An independent builder who buys off the shelf, name brand tubes? Or a larger factory that actually trucks ingots in one door, processes the alloys and uses the tubes to make their frames?
In the first instance you are talking about the frame design and the skill of the welder (I once had a Wes Mandaric. He used a really nice Japanese pinpoint TIG welder and made these tiny, uber precise welds on the Columbus tubing he used for my frame). On the other hand you are talking about the actual manufacturing of the tubing and then the frame design and the skill of the welder.
Not much different really.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time it's just that, as I said, it is a far tougher question in reality that you may realize.
What has more value to you: An independent builder who buys off the shelf, name brand tubes? Or a larger factory that actually trucks ingots in one door, processes the alloys and uses the tubes to make their frames?
In the first instance you are talking about the frame design and the skill of the welder (I once had a Wes Mandaric. He used a really nice Japanese pinpoint TIG welder and made these tiny, uber precise welds on the Columbus tubing he used for my frame). On the other hand you are talking about the actual manufacturing of the tubing and then the frame design and the skill of the welder.
Not much different really.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time it's just that, as I said, it is a far tougher question in reality that you may realize.
So, I'm just curious, nothing more.
12-23-10, 08:38 AM
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back in the days of steel, didn't every major manufacturer buy in standard tubing from Reynolds and Columbus and weld them into a bike? If we call those companies bike manufacturers, maybe today we can say with carbon any company that takes carbon sheets and turn them into a bike frame. That's a sensible cut off point, no?
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coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
No @coasting, you should stay 100% as you are right now, don't change a thing....quote Heathpack
12-23-10, 08:39 AM
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back in the days of steel, didn't every major manufacturer buy in standard tubing from Reynolds and Columbus and weld them into a bike? If we call those companies bike manufacturers, maybe today we can say with carbon any company that takes carbon sheets and turn them into a bike frame. That's a sensible cut off point, no?
12-23-10, 08:56 AM
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ah.... sure.
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My old Giant TCR said.... Designed in the USA... Seemed more honest than most.
12-23-10, 09:16 AM
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12-23-10, 09:17 AM
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12-23-10, 09:22 AM
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the italians are my favorite. If you torque a screw down in Treviso then it's considered "made in italy" and can be stickered accordingly
12-23-10, 09:24 AM
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It's fine with me if companies choose to make their bikes in third world sweatshops, but don't insult me with a "designed in US" label. Big deal!
12-23-10, 09:40 AM
#23
mosquito rancher
Here's a pretty good rundown: where was my bike made?
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12-23-10, 09:51 AM
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I made 2 of my own bikes, and assembled ("built") the others.
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Last edited by Homebrew01; 12-23-10 at 09:55 AM.
12-23-10, 10:05 AM
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Here's a pretty good rundown: where was my bike made?