caloso

Not UCI legal.



Paddy says bugger off.

echappist

i need proof that he doped. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of nonsense accusations
Lady gaga called: she wants her trademark hand position back

The Craptain

Please label your axes.

jackw72

If it were any other sport that I have participated in (Football, Target Shooting, Cricket, Squash etc...) then any sort of advantage that you can gain is perfectly acceptable to use. Cyclists seem very uniform and traditional, which is a shame, if I were you I would take this contraption you have created and use it as much as you can, lead a group with it... Where in the bible does it say you shouldn't?! If I was in that group following then at least it would give me something to compete with!

The fact that this has been named a "cheat" shows the attitude taken towards. It is just a better way to avoid the wind hardly "cheating" anything. Well done sir.

You have the Wright Brother's genes in you.

Jack

wphamilton

I like the way you think Jack. But it's really more along the lines of making it easier on myself than a technological advance. Which is why adverse attitudes while humerous are not really important - what works or doesn't work is what matters.

wphamilton

If I did that, next you'd be wanting error bars, confidence intervals, formal methodology, contiuous gradiant data ... it never ends.

Just kidding. the X axis corresponds to the number of revolutions of the front wheel over the surface (700 - 28). The y axis is miles per hour as indicated.

djb

into the ditch or oncoming tractor trailer I would imagine...
(yes, I am touching wood for you)

djb

but no grinding please

Makel

wphamilton

It hasn't been a problem, but that is a very legitimate concern for upright fairings.

djb

good, as it really does look like it would be twitchy as heck, especially with directional wind changes.
As for the whole thing, dont know if you are pulling all our legs, but even if you are, I think its great mucking around and making something like this. Could see how it would be hot though.
safe riding

DScott

I'm still trying to figure out the cost-benefit analysis that yielded a 38 pound bike that's "30-40%" more aero.

Um, yay?

Maybe I'll get it when I can understand how that large of an improvement in aerosity only resulted in a speed gain of 5mph on a coast-down test over an unknown distance and grade.

wphamilton

Force of gravity equals force of wind resistance, assuming terminal velocity. From the equation you get the ratio of CdA corresponding to the two configurations without having to know the distance and grade. If you wanted to know specifically what CdA is you'd need to know the grade, but that bit of data isn't really important for practical purposes in my opinion. It's enough to know what percentage the drag has changed.

The coast-down is over about a quarter mile, not that steep a grade - as you might surmise from the ~25 mph top speed of the ordinary bike (control). It is likely that the top speeds are not quite terminal for the grade (ie, you'd expect higher speeds if the course were longer). I'm not going to claim anything beyond what the data shows however, with worst-case assumptions. 5 mph is a significant difference at those speeds.

wphamilton

re: cost/benefit, I think I mentioned earlier that the extra 8 pounds represents a penalty of about 4% total power on a grade, or with any other acceleration of course. 30% less drag is quite a bit more than that. Power required is proportional to drag at a given speed, unless I'm having a brain fart from programming all day.

If I left all my commuting junk at home that would be another 9 or 10 pounds saved. A lighter bike, yet another 10 pounds or so and it's starting to get worthwhile for those hills and stop signs, but still less than I save on aerodynamics.

KillerBeagle

Ok, since this thread title was about etiquette, seriously? You need to ask permission to draft someone on a group ride?

wphamilton

Beagle how close is too close, to a random stranger that is, not in a group. Today I had a guy brake sharply for no apparent reason then speed up, while I was following about 6-10 feet back, basically waiting for the inclination and a clear chance to pass to coincide. That made up my mind for me and I shrugged it off as a random maneuver, but it just occurred to me that he might have been trying to back me off or something. What do you think, random fredness on our parts, is that too close for more than a minute or two, would you feel put upon in either position?

KiddSisko

Makel

lol

AdelaaR

I like the "nasa" logo

AdelaaR

This is complete nonsense.
A sport has certain rules to which the participants have to comply in order to keep the sport a fair game ... in cycling the bike is obviously regulated otherwise everybody would bring their superaerofoil velomobile and go 50mph all the time.
That would make it into a different sport.

In football, for instance, it is not allowed to carry a baseball bat.
In target shooting there are competitions with and without scopes.
Cricket is just plain silly and I will have no further comment on it.
Is squash a sport or a workout? I dunno.

wphamilton

I took him to mean the sport in general as opposed to competition racing. The whole gamut including weekend recreation rides and just riding in the streets. Your points are very valid but he's not far off-beam with a general observation is he? Don't UCI specifications dominate the design of most road bikes, particularly higher end ones?

I think it all boils down to this:
Bicycles shall comply with the spirit and principle of cycling as a sport. The spirit suggests that cyclists compete in competitions on an equal footing. The principle asserts the primacy of man over machine.

Competing on equal footing is just common sense but the "principle" strikes me as downright silly. Keep in mind that I say that as an observer, not a participant - what the UCI says or does holds only a passing interest for me.

TDRILL

He looks exactly like the guy you think would be riding that bike. I'd be willing to bet he is significantly smarter than 95% of people would give him credit for, even the ones that think he might be pretty darn smart. Its crazy but I love it

OP, do you have some plans for a redesign based on what you have learned from you current prototype? I would guess you still have quite a bit of untapped potential with the front end design. I don't mean that to be insulting at all, I just think a more tear drop shape may be achievable / possibly help your aero

wphamilton

I'm riding a version that has a faceplate under the windshield and above the tire, and a small back sloping (cone section) extension on top and you're right it is bit more aero. When I make a new winter version I plan on improving on those parts. I'll also make the sides longer which can only help.

ahsposo 

Did you ever answer the question of how you get into that fairing?

I for one would like some more detailed pictures.

wphamilton

The side swings open:


front and top:




on the drops you'd normally be behind the windshield of course - I'm just sitting up for the picture.