Mithrandir

k.

MegaTom

Smart move to let it go at that. Nobody cares about your opinions on iPhones, iThis or Apple-that; plus in any argument with Pcad, all parties end up looking like fools.

RT

Respectfully disagree BDop - I don't ride my computer I agree wholeheartedly with SA on this (as my sarcasm and fun-poking in other Di2 threads will show). Some day perhaps we won't have a choice (see U.S. Government and the light bulb), but Di2 represents an expensive solution to a problem that does not exist. A more apt comparison would be the invention of the derailleur system, giving cyclists more gears to choose from (big step). Going from mech to electric is like an earlier analogy I made: carve your turkey with a sharp knife like we have for centuries, or use an electric knife, which....does the same thing. It's cool the first time you use it, until you realize it provides very little benefit for what it is.

patentcad

On the other hand, I am a Benevolent Pope, so all who flame war with me are eventually forgiven. Either that or they give up and slink away like the pathetic Troll Freds they reveal themselves to be.

patentcad

And to be fair, the first snows could possibly hold off in Buffalo until after Labor Day.

himespau 

I don't know. Outside of the US, they often don't. What with the better mileage for manuals and all.

Mithrandir

For the sake of accuracy:

Occasionally we will get a single light snowfall in late October, around Halloween. This never stays and it's usually a freak occurrence, possibly once every 7-8 years.
Mid-November is generally the start of snowfall here, and most of the time there's no accumulation until December.
Often, there's no snow or very little snow in December. I'd say about 1 out of every 4 years on average we have no snow on the ground for Christmas. The bulk of our snow arrives in January and February, and begins melting in March.

Biking for non-crazy people can usually be done from March-November. I don't mind... I get to go skiing!


Many places get more snowfall than we do here in Buffalo. Syracuse, for example, *always* beats us in snowfall. Two years ago we had such little snowfall that even Arizona had more snow than we did. We just get a bad rap because of our two gigantic freak storms that came out of nowhere in '77 and '06. It's really not that bad.

v70cat

My bet is that it will cost less and be better than D12.

patentcad

Today that is often not the case. Newer automatics are sometimes more efficient than manuals. Depends on the car. My 2007 Acura RDX is an automatic, but with paddle shifters, you can drive it in semi-automatic mode or a mode that is 90% full manual (the car automatically shifts down to 1st gear for you even in manual mode if you forget to do it). Paddle shifters are big fun by the way. Not quite as much fun as the stick/clutch feel. I can't get a car like that, teaching Mrs. Pcad to drive a stick would be like teaching a cave man about car insurance.

So now I get my manual shift yayas out (I drove nothing but sticks for 20 years) on my motorcycle. Sigh.

Funny story: I go to Greece a couple of years ago, you essentially have to rent a stick there, so I drive the stick there for a couple of weeks. I get back to JFK airport in NY and my wife picks me up in our Acura TL (auto). I'm driving it back from the airport and the traffic in front of me slows down. I hit the brake on my TL like it's the clutch (my brain farted and forgot I was in an automatic car in NY, not in a stick car in Europe) and I almost put us all through the windshield. Happily, nothing ugly occurred.

Gluteus

+1.
Another analogy: electric toothbrush vs. regular toothbrush.

StanSeven

More and more people are using Di2 and a less expensive Ultegra will drive even more users. I think Di2 is here to stay and probably has Sram and Campy scrambling now to come out with something to counter. That analogy about craving a turkey reminded me of the comments when Ti and CF came out for frames, indexed shifting, aero wheels, etc. Many people will say new bikes provide very little benefits over steel frames, box rims, and 5 speed friction shifting

patentcad

Yeah, electric toothbrushes, those will never catch on.

RT

I don't doubt that Di2's functionality is here to stay, and it's not all bad, it's just another level of componentry. Change the way a bike works, and then we can talk. Di2 doesn't involve doing anything different from an operator's standpoint.

I just went from a 2003 Bonneville SLE automatic to a Chevy Aveo 5 speed. Sure, automatics have become more efficient, but will never beat the manual tranny for efficiency (depending on how you drive), especially in snow. Driving on ice is an adventure with an automatic, but a 5 speed gives you more control as to when and where you select your gear.

Soloist Assassin

RTDub gets it. The rest of you imbeciles on the other hand.....

himespau 

I don't know, doesn't it autotrim? And then there were those mountain bike folks that came out with a modded up version of Di2 a year or 2 ago that was set up so you only needed one shift lever as it figured gear ratios for you and automatically figured what should come next and you just hit up or down. Bring that mod in to all levels down to sora or so and you'll have a better analogy for automatic vs manual shifting and get more people who think "shifting is too complicated" (and yes they exist) out on the roads. Whether you want them or not is up to you.

North of You

I think you two might be the ones who are wrong.

The analogy to manual vs automatic is incorrect. There is nothing automatic about the shifting on the di2. It is still a manual selection of the gears, the have just done away with the problematic cables. The operator is still the one who decides which gear he would like to be in, and the di2 selects them for u and makes all the adjustments your cable system is not designed to fine-tune.

When this thing first came out I snickered too. But the more I thi k about it the more I like it. I guess some old people just don't like change. (wink)

patentcad

Keep sniffing chemtrails bunker boy.

Mithrandir

Now THAT, is freaking cool. Did they program it to avoid cross-gearing?

I would buy something like that in a heartbeat. Sometimes in a long ride I get lost in thought and don't pay close enough attention to my gears; just yesterday I was going down a hill and forgot that I shifted into the 3rd chainring on the way down, and then on the way up the other side I started slowly shifting down the rear cassette until I hit 3-1 (big ring to big ring). Near the top of the hill I looked down and suddenly realised I just climbed most of the hill in 3-1... argh. Would be nice to just be able to have the bike automatically shift down from 3-4 to 2-5 without having to think too hard about it.

RT

Autotrim is a moot function when a bike is cabled correctly and ders are adjusted on a mech drivetrian. I have a 50-34 Sora crank and a 9 speed back on one of my bikes, and the only time I even come close to FD rub is when cross-chaining, which doesn't happen. Again, my point is that operating a bike is remarkably easy, and using auto-trim to do something that is as second nature as blinking for most of us just doesn't make sense.

As soon as electronic shifting essentially operates the bike for us, cycling becomes much less fun for this guy. Not saying we all have to ride a Cat In The Hat bike with levers, pulleys, white gloved hands attached to sticks, but I certainly don't need bikes equipped with a Flux Capacitor.

Bob Ross

It's true, I don't pay attention to any pro cycling events except for the TdF. So what happened @ TdS?

Bob Ross

I've never had my toothbrushing get all uncontrollably sloppy because my cable-tension was misadjusted.

I think a better analogy might be a manual vs electric typewriter.

Phantoj

When this gets down to 105, I will be ready to try it and probably buy it...

ThinLine

Campy already has electronic in its record format. Able to shift more than one going up just by holding lever.

Waiting for electronic Sora or 2300.

Soloist Assassin

Schleck's Di2 equipped TT bike dropped the chain. Mechanic put it back on, and it did it again. Swapped him for his road bike, and he had to do the whole tt on his road bike, and lost like 1:37 or something like that to Cancellara.

kwakster928

He needs to pray to the Drop Chain God more often. His luck with the drop chains are just awful.