Andy Somnifac 

I would also note that the weight disagreement was sparked by a a comment about a 1700gm vs a 1500gm wheelset. The 2 pound difference was arrived at by using the "200 gram here, 200 gram there, and it adds up" argument.

I still maintain that an average difference of approx. 3.5 ounces per wheel is not enough for the average person to notice. Will some? Sure. Will most? Not likely. If those who are striving for the lightest bike possible can notice it? Awesome. No one is stopping them from spending the loot required. They are the ones who drive innovation in the industry. It then trickles down to the rest of us.

garciawork

I have been running Stan's for three years, and I have never serviced the stuff after the recommended interval, AND never had a flat. I wouldn't chalk that up to luck since I got flats all the friggin' time in this area before I went tubeless. The Stan's Alpha Comp wheel is cheap for the weight, came completely true (both sets actually, one was destroyed in a crash), and installation is easy. I did have to use a compressor, however, but I know enough people that have those its no biggie.

Carbon Unit

I am not a weight weenie. Weight doesn't generally come into my decision making process when buying something for my bike. My wheels would be classified as light but I didn't buy them because they were light, I bought them because of their ride quality.

I don't even know how much my bike weighs but I did weigh my seat bag and it was in at 21 ounces. Is that heavy?

jamesdak 

One thing I noticed the other day was how much harder it was keeping my old Rolf wheels up and rolling on the LeMond. It had been my fastest bike for set distances until I recently beat it with the Madone. Went out the other day with it and was feeling really strong. Decided to try to break the PR for my 20 mile route I had recently set with the Madone. But I just couldn't keep the cadence up on the small hills l encountered much less the mild 2 mile long incline. Couldn't be the 400 + gram heavier wheels though, LOL!!

Going to try again in a few days though. The LeMond has had it's pride hurt so...

kwakster928

I will take some pictures and post them when I get home. I am not sure whether the newer rims that Shimano makes are more resistant to corrosion. My Dura-Ace wheels were probably the first or the second generation.

I have tried to used the tubeless tires without the need of sealant. But depends on what kind of rim or tire you have, I was never be able to successfully seal it good enough. Another problem is, you need a lot of air pressure to push the tire beads to sit properly to the rim. This is near impossible with a hand pump or some floor pumps. I even have had many failures with CO2 cartridges. So at one point I had to result to bring the tires and the wheel to the bike shop who has compressed air. Get this at one bike shop, even the compressed air pressure wasn't good enough to push the beads, I finally took it to other bike shop and they were able to it it. Just imagine you are trying to do this on the road. Freaking nightmare.

Maybe it was bad luck or I had a bad batch of rims + tire. Tubeless was great when I was riding it. But IT IS COMPLETE PAIN IN THE ARSE when you get a flat that is big enough or simply need to service.

sbxx1985 

I was curious, until I read this. Thanks - useful info.

jamesdak 

Yep, I want things light but durable. But... I could care how heavy my saddle is as long as it's comfortable. Did 100 miles yesterday and the saddle I'm trying out ruined the day. Lot's of pain after around the 60 mile point and it was quite a distraction. Luckily the legs were fine and I could get relief by standing, something I hardly ever normally do.

Andy Somnifac 

Some people would say yes. I say if it has what you need in it, ride on.

Carbon Unit

I could probably drop a few things from my seat bag, but it would be easier for me to drop 21 ounces from my waist line.

Robert Kahler teaches what he calls a torture clinic and people that have taken his clinic have gotten great results. I asked him if would make sense to replace my heavy groupo with a lighter one. He said, only if you have taken all of the weight you can off of your body. It is cheaper to loose 2 pounds that it is to strip two pounds off my bike.

sbxx1985 

No need to get salty. Some people are hardcore WWs, some have WW tendencies, some think WWs are stupid and make the you're too fat for a light bike argument.

I just bought some Zipp ti skewers to shave 62g, although I have a powertap, heavy ass k-wings, and use an Elite instead of a Masterpiece. My Speedplays don't have ti spindles and my Aliante doesn't have carbon rails. The horror.

It makes no sense, but it makes perfect sense to me.

pmt

Nah, no trouble at all. I've converted six types of rim to Road Tubeless and put tens of thousands of kilometers on it. If you understand it, and practice a little, it's easy. I've seen NO corrosion from using Stans, and you can bet I use it! The sealant has saved the ride a number of times.

You also don't need to put a tube in if you should flat on the road and the sealant isn't enough; you just unmount that area of the tire, clean it with acetone or equivalent, and patch it. Remount, hit with CO2, and you're on the road. No follow-up needed.

I've done many 200k+ rides on Road Tubeless and don't want to use anything else. It's simply a new technology, and if you approach it with the wrong attitude, you'll fail. If you practice with it, and learn all the ins-and-outs, you'll be quite successful.

kwakster928

Glad to hear that your experience is more positive than mine. I just couldn't used to it, or just couldn't deal with the mess. I have to be honest. I never had any flats with tubeless system. But in general, I am a very light guy 140 lbs, and I don't get flats much. Almost 7+ years of cycling only one flat. (Flat god is watching). But as far as corrosion goes, it is definitely there. See pics below.







The wheel I was using...

MrTuner1970

I can echo pmt's experience. Have only used road tubeless for 1 1/2 years. One flat in 6500+ miles. No corrosion in my Eurus rims. Never had to use a compressor--only a regular pump. It is helpful to know how to properly install tubeless tires: use soapy water to help the initial seal around the bead. If you don't get that right, I can see why a compressor would be needed. But do it right, and it ain't.

rolliepollie

What ticks me is if tubeless is so much better why aren't more tire manufacturers making them for road. Currently there are what...3 tires from Huthinson?
I can't seem to find much reviews on the Atom, Fusion 3, and Intensive tires to judge their dependability, either. From what I can find they are quite mixed... Some like em, some find the sealant useless and spraying everywhere, some have tire blowouts - seems too much a gamble for me.
I'm only 140 lbs and rarely get flats, and if I do I stick a tire in and go - not hard. As for weight, tubeless may save 100g from no tubes, but add in a heftier tire and sealant and that quickly goes over 100g. And I don't wanna replace the sealant every couple months.

I only see tubeless benefiting those who frequently get flats for whatever reason. Until they don't depend on sealant, don't lose air every every night/couple days, and more tire choices sprint up (as well as dependability) I'm keeping my tubes.

MrTuner1970

Specialized and Bontrager? Granted, they might be getting them from one mfg.

I've used Fusion 2 and Fusion 3. Great tire. Good longevity, rolls great.

I'm convinced most "problems" with road tubeless are due to cockpit trouble. Gotta read the directions ... and follow 'em too.

Tubeless is not merely for weight savings. The ride is better. Interesting article.

The one flat I've had was from hitting a sharp rock while going around a curve. Punctured the sidewall and the sealant couldn't seal it (understandable with a sidewall puncture). With tubeless, there is no sudden drop in pressure. I went about a mile before I noticed the rear tire had gotten flat. (Still had 20-30 psi and the seal was just fine.) Certainly wouldn't call it a "blowout." Slow loss of pressure vs. the near-instant loss of pressure in a tubed clincher.

Stan's says sealant will need replaced in as little as two months, depending on your conditions. I've used Stan's Sealant for over a year now, and have gotten 6+ months from one 2-oz. application. (When I air up the tires, a little sealant will come out of the valve--that's how I know there is still enough in there to do some good.) I'm replacing my tires in about 6 months time anyway, so it's not an issue for me. But with regard to "replacing sealant" ... just add more to what's in there. It's not like you gotta take out the old, and the dried sealant adds insignificant weight, no?

gregf83 

Better in what way? I don't think manufacturers are that keen on products that reduce the number of flats and potential for buying new tires. Pros aren't interested as they are using tubulars.

The whole system is a little too fussy for the average rider. It's a more complicated sale for an LBS so the demand just isn't there. Until they can come up with a simple, reliable solution that doesn't require messy sealant, it will likely remain a fringe option with limited manufacturer support.

sac02

Google "Coast down test". You need a flat road, no wind, a speedometer, a stopwatch (if your bike computer can display stopwatch and speed at the same time), and a constant position on the bike.

In theory it's very simple. But on a bike the Cd is going to be so much larger than Crr (even moreso than the ratio for a car) that I think getting good numbers for Crr will be hard to do.

garciawork

Did they use soapy water around the bead to lube it up so it would seal? I don't think there is even an air compressor made that isn't strong enough to get something as small as a road tire up to 660 or so PSI... All you need is the seal, the rest can be done from a hand pump. If you don't use the soap though, thats a whole 'nother story! Then all the areas where the bead is a ways from getting sealed just shoot out air, or sealant, but that isn't the systems fault. I've done quite a few of these, and as long as its all lubed up, never had an issue! No flats either, and this is with me literally never changing the sealant for over a couple years. Nothing about it has been a pain in ass, at all.

kwakster928

I guess I should have been more specific. When I first installed the tubeless, there weren't any problems. Used plenty of soap and water, and one shot of CO2, it inflated right up. Happy then. The problem arose when I un-mounted the tire to clean the rims. When I tried to install the tire for the second time, for the life of me I couldn't let it seal. Thus resulting in a compressed air visit.

I am sure I made a stupid mistake by un-mounting the tire then. However, I couldn't take the dry latex all over the rim, plus the corrosion spots I saw, completely turned the whole concept off.

Like I said before, my wheels were first gen, and the last time I used tubeless was 3 or 4 years ago. The whole system might have evolved quite significantly since then. I am speaking for my experience. I am glad others had more positive one.

Andy Somnifac 

I just love that holding a different viewpoint meant I was being "righteous."

jimblairo

I'm running Stans on American Classic Hurricanes with Hutchinson Intensive 25mm tires. Never had a flat with 2 sets of wheels covering 8K km. on 2 bikes.

I get the LBS to mount them as it is much easier with a compressor. I ran them last year on one road bike and I got as much wear out of the Intensives as I did with Conti 4 Seasons. I checked one tire after 8 months and the sealant was still liquid and at the end of a year the other tire had a few little balls of sealant.

I'm a big rider 250 lbs and the 25 tire on a 22mm rim allows me to corner better and the lower rolling resistance is notable.

The difference between Stans and factory tubeless is the weight of 11/2 oz. of sealant.

Also, I run the tires at 100 psi instead of 115. I'm glad I went tubeless.

garciawork

Understood. Now I don't know this for sure, and I don't have the time to research this at work, but I thought Stan's had released a newer version of their sealant that wasn't as ammonia-e. Slime also has one that is very similar to Stan's (not their usual thick stuff, its runnier).

If its true that the newer Stan's is less corrosive, I'd suggest giving it another go!

nhluhr

I thought she was being fredly and you were being wise.

Andy Somnifac 

Now that my be going a bit too far in the other direction. Wisdom rarely comes from my direction, and even more rarely is wisdom encountered on BF.

Terror_in_pink

nice sleeveless jersey