Flash

I notice Cycleops PowerCal has been officially introduced via ad in the October 2011 Bicycling magazine.

I have a powertap and I'm looking for a cheap power solution for time trial races that will allow me to use my rear wheel of choice.

My chief concern is, of course, HR variability, especially on race day. I'm fairly certain my HR is higher on race day -- topped out at 195 with average of 185 during my best effort this season. I never see these numbers during training.

Excerpt from Cycleops marketing director interview addressing the obvious question many of us will ask re: this new product:

Steve Chapin, CycleOps’ marketing director said “Lab tests have shown a very consistent correlation between heart rate and power indoors, the correlation is almost one-to-one,” said Chapin. “The problem is that there’s all sorts of variables outside, hills, heat, etcetera. What we’ve done over the last few years is to analyze literally thousands of ride files and we’ve been able to identify and establish trends in instances where there’s a deviation in the correlation between heart rate and power and we’ve taken it one step further by building algorithms that identify those trends.”

Note however that the author of the article does some detailed comparisons of his own power/HR data and is not convinced that the PowerCal will produce accurate power measurement.

Thoughts?

Full article here

* I don't work for Cycleops

Butcher

Not worth it for me. If something cost too much money, then I wait until I have more so I can buy what I want. So if it takes a few more months/years, then so be it. I have had the case of the igot2haveits put things on credit, but that was 20 year ago. Wait a year or so and get a pedal power meter or even a crankset.

Braden1550

Algorithims<Strain gauges EVERY SINGLE TIME

Phantoj

Seems like it's hard enough to accurately measure power when you're, you know, actually measuring power... Let's wait and see, but I'm not hopeful.

merlinextraligh

Disc cover with your PT wheel is a better, and cheaper, answer.

Flash

Yeah, I did this all season and it's a huge pain prep-wise and also heavy. I want a real disc ;-)

pallen

Sounds like the numerous attempts at calculating calories burned - has anyone got that right yet?

Drew Eckhardt 

It'll provide more accurate zone definitions for cyclists training with heart rate which may lead them to ride harder on their easy days. I have a much higher heart rate working in Friel's lower power zones (for example - one nice zone 2 ride with .7 intensity factor yielded an average heart rate at 94% of LTHR which is getting into heart rate zone 4) and would not be riding hard enough for maximum benefit on longer rides.

It'll give cyclists training with power better stress estimates from significant time spent riding at varying intensity on non-power meter equipped bikes (mountain, tandem, etc.)

For your occasional steady-state time trial efforts it shouldn't provide much benefit.

rangerdavid

..................... where's pcad?

kleinboogie

My only thought is how useless devices are that claim to give power numbers by measuring everything except torque. Didn't stop the iBike from cornering the "Physics only applies to other people" market.

jmX

I'd say its a toy until somebody with a powermeter rides with one and posts both numbers and proves that wrong.

Strava has access to weight, gradient, heart rate, and speed and its power numbers still seem somewhat arbitrary.

roadCruiser76

Save up for the Garmin Vector. That's my plan.

Braden1550

Even then, even if the numbers were similar, it could have more to do with whether or not the neighborhood stray pis5es on your fence on a full moon night or poops on a half moon. You'd need more than a spin up and down the road to confirm accuracy, and hundreds of hours of (independently verified) testing to work out whether or not it was consistently accurate/inaccurate, and by how much.

And what about lag? I mean, I'm pretty sure I can sprint for more than a few seconds before my heart catches on to what I'm up to.

Strava is a joke..Weather? Equipment? Strain gauges or bust.

bonz50

https://teamrodrigo.com/2012/07/20/ri...eops-powercal/

old thread I know, a friend just ordered one because he did not want to drop a G-note on a PT wheel, I can understand that considering the P-cal is only $100. thought I'd look up the 41's thoughts on this.

the numbers he gets in the article from the powercal seem to correspond nicely with the powertap. powercal seems to be a bit optimistic (about +5% over powertap), but also seems like a pretty good training tool for someone who doesn't want to drop the big bucks for a PT wheel. seems like a nice intro tool for beginning serious trainers. I'm interested to see how my riding partner does with his.

pallen

wow, pretty impressive for a $100. Sounds like it would be an improvement over training with HR only.

bonz50

I'm going to wait and see how well he does with his and then during the off season I'll order my garmin500 base model and get the p-cal and cadence sensor ($139 msrp for both) and use that next season, if it works as advertised.

gregf83 

I don't see how it is much better than HR alone. All of the problems associated with training by HR (fatigue, dehydration etc) will be present with this device.

When you are doing an interval you'll just be monitoring a power estimate instead of an HR number. It won't work for short intervals and it won't allow you to monitor your improvement over the course of a season. Normally, you expect your power to go up for a given HR as you progress through the season, this device won't reflect that.

pallen

Ok, I just read the product description. I was under the impression it was also reading speed, cadence, and GPS data (ascending, descending, etc...) to make its calculations, but this appears to be HR only. If it could use all the data available, it theoretically could anticipate HR changes when you start climbing, sprinting and such and be more accurate. I guess if they could do all of that, it would end up costing as much as a "real" power meter.

alpha_bravo

I think you'll have enough money in your savings account to buy a fleet of Vector pedals by the time they're introduced.

Algorithms will never be able to take into account wind resistance, and HR is so easily affected by environmental factors I personally think this is a bad move by Saris. They really revolutionized the market with the PowerTap being the most affordable power meter which still has spot on accuracy. To me this cheapens their name and reputation.

It simply can't be as accurate as their PowerTap, if it was they would be cannibalizing their own market. Who in their right mind would buy a PowerTap or traditional strain gauge power meter any more?

pallen

The website is pretty clear that its no PowerTap and cant replace a power meter. They are just trying to pickup customers who would never spend the money on a PowerTap. If it could fairly reliably get within 10-20% I think it could offer some value. If its heart rate only though, it will always lag behind what's actually happening at the moment.

bonz50

of course it will lag, and you get to put and extra 1000 bucks back in your pocket in the meantime. as I mentioned, for the average joe cyclist, not a bad option for tracking yourself. myself, I'd NEVER EVER spend the loot for a powertap rear wheel, its just to much damn money for me considering I have no intention or desire to be "competitive", for recreational riders than want a training tool, this seems like an option. after all, if you buy a garmin 500 and get the deluxe HRM, its already $60, for an extra $30ish you can get something that will give a reasonable estimate of your power output. not bad.

given that it will work as the article states it does.

Chickenstrip

Yeah, Cyclometer says I burned almost 3000 calories today. I was able to throw back about 15 hot wings with fries at lunch I figure that's about 3000 calories. Must be right!

achoo

So, you've tested it?

If you haven't tested it, and you're not omniscient, you can't say, "It won't work" for anything.

Given the product description, and the review posted above, it damn well may work a helluva lot better that just HR alone, even if its only input is HR.

bonz50

and given the very meager price, seems (on the surface, anyway) like a good tool for cyclists of lesser means. I'm anxiously awaiting my riding partners reviews of it and how it helps him.

svtmike

I'm interested in it for the bikes I have that don't have Powertaps (commuter and hardtail) -- data from a PowerCal has got to be better than simply estimating TSS, no?