onikazi

Ive looked for a while and cant really find a thread with a good comparison between the two.

Besides the weight benefits of Red, the biggest 2 things i see with red over force is ceramic bearings in the RD and Zero-Loss.

Ive recently acquired a Foil 20 frame (54), and its gonna be my first WW build, all done by yours truly. I already got Williams 58 CC, Arione CX saddle, 2x Blackburn cages (26g)an easton EC90 stem and im looking at williams carbon bars (42mm) (weight and pricepoint). I really dont want to go overkill and get boutique parts for way too much money, but I also want to get the best value. Im not looking at sub-15lb pounds either but im looking to hit that weight at an affordable price.

Anyone with experience on both?

JustinHorne

The current Force vs the Current Red comes down to weight and zero loss. Ceramics just ARE a gimmick. Zero loss, from what I've heard, is worth it. It's definitely common to see all Force builds with Red shifters in order to get ZL.

The next generation of Red adds quite a lot in terms of front shifting, etc. If you can afford it, that's probably what I'd get. FWIW, I ride an all Force Scott and love it.

tardman91

According to SRAM's website the Force shifters are zero loss, no?

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produc...letap-controls

dleccord

I have the current Force and I believe it comes down to weight and zero loss. Also stay away from ceramic bearings; ceramics just ARE a gimmick. Zero loss, from what I've heard, is really worth it. It's definitely common to see all Force builds with Red shifters in order to get ZL here on the 41 and love it.

Painful Chafe

Zero loss on Force is the front only. Basically Justin nailed it. Zero loss in the rear is pretty cool. Weight difference between component sets is .4lbs.

I had Force and now ride Red. I wouldn't have a problem riding Force with Red shifters.

There is a guy that sells Sram groups on CL in the SF bay area. He will mix and match for you and his prices are really good.

Here is one of his ads. Email him and let him know what you want. I'm guessing a Force group with Red shifters would be about $1000-1100.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/2832851257.html

ruindd

The real question right now is how to time the market for everyone upgrading to 2013 red.

weaver

I have Red and I like the weight but if that's not important to you I don't think the zero-loss in the rear is anything special. You only feel the zero loss when shifting from the smallest cog up 1. After that you have a good amount of play in the lever shifting in both directions.

FlashBazbo

I have a mixed SRAM groupset (including Force crankset and brakes) and my bike weighs out at 14.99 lbs with cages and pedals. The weight difference isn't that big a deal. I have Red shifters. Zero loss isn't that big a deal. (SRAM shifting isn't that great, regardless. If you were into the nuances of shifting performance, you wouldn't be buying SRAM.) Go with whichever you want. Styling is a difference nobody is talking about -- but it may be as important as the other factors. Styling is why I'm riding a Force crankset -- I can't stand the stamped sheet metal look of Red chainrings.

IcySmooth52

You must have Red derailleurs if you have Red shifters. Red isn't compatible with any other group set because it uses a different cable-pull/derailleur movement ratio. Force is actually exactly the same as all other SRAM groupsets but Red in mechanical design. It's just nicer because of weight and materials used.

This is information directly from a SRAM rep.

tcwayne

You could get the Red Black which blows Force away.

Incorrect.
I was using a complete Force groupset on my current frame. I started upgrading a piece at a time to Red. First, the cranks.
Second, the shifters (still have Force RD and FD at this point with zero issues)
Third, replaced the RD and left the Force FD (allz well)
That's how I'm riding it today. Red cranks, shifters and RD. The rest is Force.

GrtSaint72

This^
I run all force with Red shifters for the zero loss. No problems at all.

Pinkbullet3

But that information was coming from a SRAM rep! How could you refute that?!

ThinLine

If you can get over the crude yet functional aspect of Force (SRAM in general) you will like it. I swear I'm going to break those magnesium paddles some day....................but I don't. Good stuff!

DrPete 

Red shifters with Force for everything else is a good way to go. Otherwise ditch the ceramic BB and go with the PG-1070 cassette and you can slash a ton of cost from the Red group with zero performance difference.

My Tri bike is all Force with TT900 shifters and honestly when you take the road levers out of the equation it's impossible to tell the difference between Force and Red.

Painful Chafe

Untrue.

You likely misunderstood the rep. He was likely saying Sram shifter will not work with components from other manufacturers.

canam73

Wtf? Separated at birth?

2ndGen

Wait until just before 2013 Red drops.
You'll be able to snag full Red groups for almost Force prices
(it's what I did to get my Dura-Ace 7800 drivetrain at 105 5700 prices).
But yeah, if you don't want to go full Red for budget concerns
mostly Force bits w/Red Shifters is the common compromise.

VA_Esquire

The NEW Red is like that.

DrPete 

Ah, clearly SRAM caught on to the popularity of Franken-gruppo like the ones mentioned in this thread. Nice way to force customers up a price point. I do think the current Force shifters have ZL, though.

Grasschopper

Only in regards to the front shifting and the Yaw derailleur. The rear is still the 1:1 cable pull as evidenced by the RD being compatible with the other groups. Also the statement that the cranks are only compatible with the new shifters and FD is pure crap. The spacing is identical to the 2011 stuff, there is no reason it won't work with the older groups. The reason the FD MAY not work with the older shifters is cable pull ratio. I have the older shifters and have the FD on order...I have read several places that it actually works just fine.

VA_Esquire

Can't wait for everyone to sell their old RED grouppos for me to buy one cheaply.

JustinHorne

Haha, wow.

grwoolf

Another fan of Red Shifters/Force. I upgraded one of my bikes to Red/Force and then ended up doing the same for my other bike because I much preferred the shifting of SRAM vs. Shimano. I never had any major issues with Shimano, just prefer the action of SRAM. I don't find it crude at all, I find it much more precise than Shimano. I do have my eye on the new Red FD. If it really works well with the old Red Shifters, I'll certainly be buying a couple of them. The elimination of chain rub and the built-in chain catcher look like good ideas from an intial look. I'll wait for some others to try first.

I <3 Robots

The pull ratios are the same all across the board, so you can mix and match to our hearts desire.

The rear zero loss is not that big a deal. I bet some people won't notice unless its pointed out to them...or tries both back to back. The Red just has a bit less shifter play prior to engagement. Once the "click" is made...it shifts the same.

When EP is availble for the 2012 stuff, I'm going to pick up the shifters and front derailleur.