SirKronan

That is true. I couldn't find any very similar configurations on their for anything close to $2k. In that respect, the claim was exaggerated.

SpeshulEd 

I have to admit, I considered this bike...wouldn't be a bad buy on a double points weekend:

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...36_-1___000000

redtires

Yeah....$1200 on your team perf card!? You could just pick up an extra "rain bike" for the hell of it!

SpeshulEd 

I have a funny story regarding Performance club points...

They were having a 20% off weekend a couple of weeks ago and I knew I had points to use so I was checking out the website, thinking I'd buy some tubes or whatever. I had been saving up points for awhile so I knew I had a few, but didn't think it was too many.

I looked at my account to see how many points I had and it said 16,000...I was shocked (especially because I was thinking I had 10% of that to spend...$1600, what the hell, they must have made a mistake). I hauled ass to the store, thinking they had made an error and I could put that large chunk of change towards a new mountain bike. Not that I wanted a Performance mtb all that much and really wanted a cannondale lefty, but what the hell would I do with $1600, so why not.

I walk into the store and ask the guy to show me the best mtb's in the $1600 range. The guy, all excited, starts to show me the mtb's and I bring up the fact that I have 16000 points and that I can get a free bike...he started laughing and explained that points are like pennies and that I really only have $160. We put the bike back in the rack and I left. Damn you performance bike!

SirKronan

$1200+ back to spend on other goodies. Wow, that would be something!!! I very much enjoyed spending my points after buying my SST 3.0. Shoes and pedals, which were also on sale, plus they hooked me up with a military discount. I was extremely impressed. Their service was good, too. Let me test out bikes for hours, very patiently. When I narrowed it down to the one I purchased, they put me on it with a trainer, used a special ruler to measure my leg, adjusted the seat, etc. It seemed like they knew what they were doing, but I'm new enough to this that I still have much to learn, so if they would've missed something, I wouldn't have noticed unless it was very obvious.

But the club points you get back to spend in store, and the return policy there would certainly make up for good bit of shortcomings elsewhere.


Bahahaha!!! I bet they had a good laugh after you left. That is a good story, indeed. Thanks for sharing!! I have a bit of a "funny" story, too. After I got my bike home, I was so excited to take it for a spin, despite it being night time, that I threw all my gear on and pedaled off down the road. I road for so long and got so into the speed and exhilaration of riding a faster, nicer bike than anything I'd ever imagined owning before, that I forgot I had the clipless pedals on.

Yep. Pulled into my driveway, stopped, and fell over. Put a nice bruise on my arm, too.

I need more practice with these pedals, and doing it during the daylight would be wise.

adriano 

they did a year and a half ago. check your dates.

Bah Humbug

Great. So, why aren't they anymore? Was it an unrealistic price and they wanted some attention? Or were they trying to blow out last year's frames for almost free with a nice groupset? Clearly they aren't able to offer that as business as usual. That makes it a temporary screaming deal, not that the Fuji is overpriced.

adriano 

it was the steady price on a previous carbon model. newsflash: prices have increased over the last two years.

fuji makes fine stuff, but they wont beat mail order pricing.

Bah Humbug

You can still get the Fuji for the price being discussed back then. The Neuvation is now in line with them. Guess there's no such thing as a free lunch. Neuvation isn't able to consistently undercut Fuji.

adriano 

neuvation differentiated up with the current carbon model. you can still get a neuvation complete with di2 for 35% less than a fuji, 2300 to 3500 with the neuvation coming with an ultegra crank.

SirKronan

I think you meant exactly the opposite, right?? That the Fuji is cheaper (although not 35%)?

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...400306__400306
$2999 sale price (plus your club points to spend) with Rotor 3D, which many consider an upgrade over the ultegra crank.

versus:

https://www.neuvationcycling.com/prod...a-di2-1257.htm
$3895 sale price
If you go down to the 600 series frame, it's still $3600 on sale right now.

Both high grade carbon bikes, although the Gran Fondo is more of an endurance frame.

I would personally get this Fuji for that price bracket:
https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...400306__400306

$3399, but ridiculously fast and responsive frame. I have ridden on that frame sans the di2, and it's amazing. (and no, I'm not referring to my lowly 3.0, I also tested the model up from that which has the better carbon frame. It was out of my price range but I wanted to compare).

Please show me the full carbon neuvation with di2 and the ultegra crank. And I'm not being sarcastic, I really couldn't find it.

adriano 

i was referring to retail pricing, and neuvation has the f100 at 2300, 35% less than the altamira 2.1 at 3500, as their entry point for a di2 complete.

as long as you are the right size, those carbon fujis are great deals for new a new complete thanks to clearance sales.

all this stuff is good, but no frame is fast. if you are powerful enough to make the minutia between modern race frames matter, youd have your equipment given to you.

Bah Humbug

Why are you now talking about the (alloy) F100 vs a different Fuji instead of the mythical $2000 carbon Di2 Neuvation vs a ~$4000 Fuji?

adriano 

im just saying that the di2 entry point is 35% lower and not that they are made of the same material. the 2x00 carbon di2 neuvation was the fc100, as mentioned in march 2012.

Bah Humbug

So you're not actually comparing bikes when you're comparing bikes. Makes sense.

adriano 

comparing a di2 complete to a di2 complete. the fc100 was also carbon.

Bah Humbug

Having the same group set is not the same as being comparable. And the FC100 is irrelevant if it's not available anymore. Still going to dig in your heels?

adriano 

the comparison was made in reply to the assertion that the high price was largely due to di2 so a like group makes them comparable in that context. the fc100 was available at the time of the comparison.

SirKronan

But NOT available when you said this:

"You can STILL GET a neuvation complete with di2 for 35% less than a fuji...." No you can't unless you go aluminum, and then it's no longer a comparison. You can NOT "still" get a neuvation carbon with di2 for less than a Fuji. In fact, the Fuji costs HUNDREDS less and comes with a better crank. This thread is on current events and pricing and comparison now. Whatever prices were two years ago doesn't matter. It is 2013 and Fuji is one of the best value props for getting a full carbon with di2, considerably better than neuvetion at present. I'm sure it'll flip flop. Neuvation will have their special sales and promos, and Fuji's current promos will end.


Humbug's post was that they are NOT a much better price (correct) and that they're ugly (I actually disagree on this one, hehe), and your post was that you can still get a better deal on a Neuvation, which we cannot.

Just let it go, my friend.

adriano 

with those numbers, i was speaking to each the brands entry into di2, not that they are made of the same stuff. they greatly differ in ways much more meaningful to actual ride than material.

it is the carbon neuvation that is hundreds cheaper than the sst 1.3 c at retail though that sale on the fuji is a fine deal.

last year, i wasnt speaking about fujis pricing this year. this year, im saying neuvation is legit and delivers a quality, highly customizable product at a very arguably better price. i give the aesthetic nod to fuji, and im from philly and have nothing against the town brand, but until they go mail order themselves, which everyone will, they cant win the retail pricing game over mail orderers.

i neither have nor have ever had a neuvation.

halfspeed

Does the Neuvation come the bag you'll have to wear over your head while you ride it, or does that cost extra?

SirKronan

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.... are you just playin' with us? Seeing how long we will keep this up with you? I really hope not, but I'm beginning to wonder. You say "hundreds cheaper" but Neuvation is ALSO having a SALE PRICE!! The MSRP of the F100 alloy is $4489!! You have really gone off the deep end here, man! I am sure it's a quality product, the the "arguably better price" simply DOES NOT EXIST. Fuji sells bikes through some mail order vendors, but you can also pick them up at your LBS, which is going to be a HUGE advantage to some. And even if you're talking alloy bikes, you are still going to tie, at best, the Fuji. Take the top end alloy Roubaix 1.0:

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...400784__400784

It's a sick alloy bike. To get the same quality wheels, frame, full carbon fork w/carbon steerer, etc. you are looking at your $2355 Neuvation that you mentioned above. That Fuji is $1100 with a 105 grouppo. You purchase this from the same performance bike shop:

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...=c&cagpspn=pla

Di2 upgrade kit for $1300 + $1100 = $2400 for your "entry Fuji" alloy bike with a Di2. Not a fair comparison, you say? I beg to differ, because although a Fuji alloy bike doesn't come stock with Di2, both my local bike shop in Idaho Falls AND the Performance Bike shop will component swap for FREE if you buy the bike and components with them. They make money on both items, and it's a locally sold bike, so they'll do it for you happily, and you've got a stinking 105 setting there that you can sell or keep for spare parts. In addition, you'll get $240 to spend on whatever you want at Performance bike in the shop or on the web later. You won't get that with Neuvation.

Take your worst case scenario numbers, full retail prices for the Di2 upgrade kit and Fuji bike and what do you get? $1530 MSRP for bike + $1600 MSRP for group upgrade kit = $3130 for FULL RETAIL on a Fuji.
FULL RETAIL Neuvation according to their own website: $4489 (and that's without the full carbon steer tube which the Fuji has stock).

Neuvation LOSES AGAIN ACROSS THE BOARD. LOSE LOSE LOSE LOSE. LOSE ON SALE (if you count the points you get back). LOSE ON MSRP. Even if you order the bike online and the upgrade kit online, my local bike shop will charge $60 to finish assembling the bike, Fuji OR Neuvation, so it's a wash there. At least at your local performance store they build it for you. The Neuvation you have to build or pay the $60 (or more) for your LBS to do it, thereby negating any small price advantage it had. And if you're going to pay them to finish assembling the bike, they can probably do the Di2 component swap on the Fuji while they're finishing the assembly, and my LBS includes making sure the shifters are all tuned and working properly as part of the package. I know each LBS can be different, but I'm basing it one what I can purchase here. And you STILL get the Performance bike credit to spend $240 - 30 for membership, still $210 to spend on shorts, jerseys, a trainer, whatever you want, which is probably better priced at Performance Bike already anyways.

Seriously, man. This is getting old, and you are making no sense. Back in the day Neuvation was very price-competitive, but now Fuji is playing hard and putting out some seriously awesome frames for your buck. They are definitely every bit the value prop that Neuvation is currently, and in all the cases I laid out for you, the Fuji is clearly the better value. I know some people like plain, subdued bikes without the branding. I respect that. And I would never fault you for getting a Neuvation if that's what you want. It's a free country.

But you keep touting this mystical nonexistent "arguably better price" that you're SURE Neuvation has, but the numbers simply do NOT back it up on any level of bike they are selling right now. I'm not saying that they won't later, or that Fuji prices won't start going up as they start seeing more success with their newer frames and competitive pricing winning people back over to the brand, but right now there is no arguably better price with neuvation for Di2 or carbon bikes vs. Fuji that I can see. Go crunch some numbers, Adriano. Seriously.

Don't worry. I still value you and your input, but I've tried as hard as I can to justify in my feeble mind where you are coming from, and I just can't see it, my man!

Peace!

What???

halfspeed

Is the Neuvation "retail price" an actual retail price or BikesDirect style retail price?

Standalone 

ARPRINCE

Very nice pix. Brings back memories of MAZINGER Z!