adriano 

caloso

The correct answer as usual is whatever Eddy would do.

hairnet

You can change bar drop any time depending on your mood that day for all I care. Saddle position, cleat position, etc. are set and left alone for the most part.

hueyhoolihan

to me, it's obvious that i am at no more of an angle, torso to legwise when i'm sitting in a nice comfortable chair than when i'm sitting on my bike with a 12cm drop to the handlebars. so i doubt whether flexibility has anything at all to do with the discomfort many people experience when riding a bicycle.

what's causing the discomfort is that the head has to be held up in order to see ahead. the more drop the more he head has to be held up. those muscles don't get developed overnight. i think they are called the trapezious and scalene muscles... it think it's really that simple.

DaveSSS 

A 90 degree bend in the at the elbow is an old-school idea. It's far more common to have the upper back nearly horizontal with hardly any bend at the elbow. I use an 11cm drop to accomplish that. Bending the elbow a lot just creates arm to knee interference, while pedaling with your hands in the hooks.

Gluteus

Wow.
Brilliant demonstration.

Brian Ratliff

Not to mention it uses energy that is better directed towards the pedals.

wkg

that doesn't really mean anything

18hockey

I am just stunned at the absolutes being bandied about. I am stunned that "funny" bikes are no longer in use since it's an absolute that the lower you get the more aero and more powerful you are.

chadteck

I'm not saying the 90 degree figure is set in stone, but somewhere near there is about as aero as you're going to get your arms when you're in the drops. I don't have any trouble keeping my knees just inside my elbows with my arms in that position. I reduced my drop because I realized that I could keep my back just as flat, arms more aero and have a better climbing position on the tops. My old fit is similar to what you describe and I moved away from it because it didn't make sense for me.

Brian, why does a 90 degree bend in your arm use extra energy, unless you're straining to keep it like that?

abstractform20

nah ugh

adriano 

its just two 5 9 guys that won tours 60 years apart.

Spoonrobot 

No context post has no context.

https://ruedatropical.com/2010/06/bik...i-to-contador/

Brian Ratliff

Seriously? You can't imaging why holding your weight with muscles is more tiring than bearing your weight on your skeleton? And a low bar in no way precludes bending your elbows to get lower.

At 5'11" on a 50cm frame, you had more problems than your bars being up or down a couple inches.

chadteck

If you're locking your arms (which you would be to bear the weight on your skeleton), you're doing it wrong.

The point I was making is if your drop is such that your back is completely horizontal when your arms are bent 90 degrees, there really is no reason to increase it.

I'm still riding the 50cm frame with a few spacers under the stem. It's on the small side but the top tube is only 3cm shorter than my previous 56cm frame. Frame sizes are a bit misleading with the varying degrees of top tube sloping now. I had to use a short stem on my 56 (80mm), whereas my current stem is "normal" (110mm).

ColinL

wow. I'm just imagining your proportions and body position as I'm 6'0" and ride a 61cm frame with a 90mm -6D stem. if you don't have a lot of drop, is your saddle really low? I just measured my bar drop and it's 9cm. my saddle height (from center of BB) is 79.8cm, which is right there where it ought to be with my 35" cycling inseam.

I could totally ride a 58cm bike with a 110-120mm stem, and maybe even a 56 with a 140mm stem. I fully realize I'm on the largest frame I can ride and I'm good with that. But your 50cm at 5'11" just blows me away!

ruskko

im 6 foot and ride a 50

chadteck

I still have a pretty decent amount of drop for my height (~4.5 in), just less than I had before (~6.5 in).

My inseam is about an inch shorter than yours and saddle height is ~77.5cm. The difference between my 50cm frame and my 56cm really isn't as big as people think. The top tube on the 50cm is 53.3cm where my old one was 56cm - difference is easily made up by a longer stem. The head tube is 20mm shorter on 50cm bike - difference made up by 2 spacers.

ColinL

you must have used two very different bikes then, like the old one was race geometry and the new is endurance... because normally a 50->56 is more like 40mm TT and HT difference.

anyway I'm with you on the elbows, more or less. I'm not sure if his profile pic is old, he's coasting, or it's just a deceptive camera angle.. but Mr Ratliff's elbows look pretty straight-- not locked, but much straighter than mine, and he's sitting up pretty tall. my elbows are more like 65 degrees, not that it means much without seeing my corresponding torso angle.

adriano 

thanks, lo siento.

carpediemracing 

How pro is too pro?

I had a lower position back in the day. After looking forward at a slightly declined angle (i.e. 15 deg down or so), I would see triple whenever I looked up. Apparently I was pinching a nerve or vein or something.

Now I'm higher by a bit and the bike is much longer. I don't have the dizzy problem any more unless I'm buried in effort.

DaveSSS 

With enough saddle to bar drop, you don't have to bend the elbow even close to 90 degrees. Those with long torsos would not have the knee to arm interference problem that those of us with short torsos have. I like a lot of drop, even for climbing. I never use the bar tops while climbing, unless I'm taking it easy. When I want more power for a steep climb I get lower - it's more effective than an upright position, if you know how to use the glutes. I've logged many thousands of miles climbing the Colorado mountains. I've powered past riders on the steeper sections, using a low position and pedaling seated. Another alternative is to pedal standing to increase speed. That requires a careful selection of gear ratio to keep you cadence down and heart rate within limits. Ride for a couple of miles standing and you'll figure it out.

revchuck 

<thread drift>

Colin - Just FYI, you can find more difference than that in HT length among frames that are nominally the same size. My 58cm CAAD9 had a 175mm HT; a 58cm Allez has a 205mm HT, and a 58 cm Roubaix/Secteur has a 225mm HT. While the Roubaix and Secteur are considered "endurance" bikes, both the CAAD9 and Allez are considered "race" bikes...and there's a 30mm difference in HT length. My "endurance" bike, a 61cm Look 585 Optimum, has a 215mm HT, but my "race" bike, a 61cm Allez, has a 230mm HT. HT lengths are all over the place.

</thread drift>

RedLeg

Not all pro's have great positions on the bike. Get a fit and ride comfortably, you will go faster that way.

canemaster

Oh to answer your question OP,

too pro: